Whats an Irish Staffie? Discussions

heres a link and a bit of info hope this helps sorry for being rude
http://www.game-bred.com/indigenous-pit-dogs-of-the-isles.pdf

The background to the Dublin Red Strain is made up of descendants of Ch. Gentleman Jim, both Brindle Devil and Bankhead Bullfighter, were from his lines and were exported to Ireland from England. Brindle Devil also had offspring sent to the U.S.A, but we will get back to that part later on. In the middle of the 1950`s, Harry Payne from Yorkshire, England mated his bitch "Chelmont Grand Duchess" with the show champion Pal of Aveth and in that litter there was a dog who was named Brindle Devil. Mr. Payne certainly did the Irish Stafford scene a great favor when he sent Brindle Devil to Ireland, the dogs excellent qualities carried on into his sons and daughters and into their sons and daughters and so on. The most common of his linage were the Battling prefix dogs. These appear a great many times in modern Red strain dogs pedigrees.
Brindle Devil was owned by Willie Delaney from Dublin, Ireland who with Bob Watt from Dublin was the founder of the Dublin Red Strain of dogs. At that time Bob Watts owned a bitch named Battling Beauty, a daughter of Fearless Cavalier and Spring Beauty, and after she was mated to Brindle Devil she gave birth to two great dogs, Battling Duchess, and Battling Devil.
Both Duchess and Devil were show winners, but they were also great badger dogs. Seamus McNutt a well known Stafford fancier in Ireland bought her from Bob Watt in 1962 when she was 3 years old and he later claimed that she was one of the best bitches he ever owned. She was also was used in the Badger trials of Ireland which she passed with Honors. Ch. Brindle Devil was also mated to Ch. Brindle Wee Lass, and in that litter there was two exceptional dogs, Great Roger and his famous brother Satan's son.
Both The Great Roger and Fawn and Fancy were said to be game dogs and I guess their certificates gives us an indication of how tough they could be. It has been said that they had one too many kennel fights and as a result the Great Roger ended Fawn and Fancy's life.

Battling Lass, a daughter of Watt's Battling Beauty was mated with Delaney's Great Roger and she produced McNutt's Fearless Devil. This dog was put across a bitch by the name Wychcome Bernadette, which was a sister of the English show Champion Ch. Cambodian Contender out of Ch. Game Penny by Ch. Rellim Ferryvale Victor.

The author, John F. Gordon bought a number of these pups out of Bernadette and this led the bloodline back to England again along with a litter after Bandits Princella and Battling Devil.

When Bobby Watt's mated his Battling Duchess to her half brother Satan's Son she produced the Red Commando. He was a show winner and a very game dog and when put to Peter Kane's Matador Maid they produced two great dogs. One was a bitch named Granitefields Reba's Beauty and the other was the Wolf Island boy. Wolf Island Boy was famous for his ability at the Badger and he won the best dog award at the trials twice, once in 1975 and then in 1977. He was also known as Lord Rommel, and his sister Wolf Island Girl and offspring's went under both prefixes. Despite his great ability at the trails it was said that he would not fight other dogs.


Wolf Island Boy also had a famous half sister called Cardonagia Red, which was out of Red Duchess and the Red Commando. When the Red Commando was put across Cardonagia Red she produced Mandy of Rommel and this bitch in turn was put across Byrne's Satan's Son, producing the well known Frazer of Ireland. Frazer of Ireland or Boomerang as he also was known in Ireland was brought over to England by M. Dann and it was said that Frazer was one of the gamest Stafford's Maurice ever owned. M. Dann also imported a bitch named Mandy of Dublin, another game dog of this line and with both Frazer and Mandy he had his foundation dogs for his Strain of Stafford's.

passed on the genes and the result is the Red Strains we see today.


When bred to the Red Dart of Asquith he produced Russell's Ch. Red Joe, a 3x winner. Out of all Red Warriors sons Ch. Red Joe is probably the most known and probably most frequent used as a stud dog. It is claimed that he has sired over 75 pups, some going to Sweden, Norway, Holland, U.S.A, and even Israel

Badger trials? Dear God!:-(

yes that was part of the history of the breed tessa mora and i also think is was also part of the irish kc as well all historical

hi there from what i have found out over the years is there is know such thing as an irish staff its just a name to get around the law they are pitbulls they look very much like a staffie and have longer legs i rescued one not so long ago she was being beaten at a bus station the poor thing had an old wound on her elbow where her leg had been broken at some point thankfully she is ok now after a nice bath and plenty of love cuddles and grub people that do these things shouldnt have any pets its sick and i would love to do the same to all those people out there that think its ok to beat dogs to make them fight how would they like it done to them aye

Hi imo any dog that has charecteristics of a staff but not purebread get labeld irish staff as has mine ime currently trying to figure out what my dog actualy is

here is the post with the pics

http://www.dogsey.com/showthread.php?t=112907

First question what is a pitbull???as my unerstanding is that the staffordshire bull terrier was called the pitbull and terrier in 1930 also do you know anything about the tessa mora and the different strains of working staffs from the 50s,60s,70s??Also I have seen many longer legged staffords that are kc are they irish staffs or pitbulls as you call them and would you class amos banes lines and ch gentleman jim irish staffords as they had longer legs than the modern type and also would you consider a modern type a cross as some are that small they look like they are crossed with a pug???;-)

Hello... thank you for this good piece of infomation. its good to see my dad has helped in the breed of them.. i am sure he will be happy to see that someone has wrote about his work and his passion of the sport and love of the dogs. my dad maurice dann. has talked to me and my other siblings for all our life and all my life i have been brought up around the dogs. but never thought about looking him up on the internet untill tonight. im sure when i tell him it will start a huge conversation about the dogs and will start a intrest agen. thank you for telling people about it and thank you for a very usefull information. marlee dann

When i adopted my staffy cross from the centre the original owners had been told she was an irish staffy but according to my vet, adoption centre staff and my trainer she is just a staffy cross. She is taller than a staffy and much finer boned but she is not aggressive at all and from the pits i have seen she looks nothing like them much to slimline no idea what she is crossed with but obviously something tall.
I agree though that if the dog is aggressive it should have a muzzle on in the prescence of other dogs.

q

hello marlee if your dad is maurice dann has he still got the dogs??i have some descendants from the dogs your dad owned i think someone i know is good friends with your dad he had some cracking dogs would be good to meet him.I have dogs from your dads stock and mr payne and there are still a few people trying to keep them lines going your dad maybe able to help in locating some fresh blood as my line needs a fresh injection

i no somebody who has an irish staff its alot larger than my staff and just as placid fantastic around dogs and kids i dont think its a pitbull as ive seen him next to a pure pitbull and the differences are very noticeable.. im waiting for my staff to come into season and im going to breed her probably with the irish staff.. anybody seen an english staff crossed with an irish staff?? from what i can see it would just crate a litter of medium size staffs but does anybody what one of these would actualy look like?? also im pretty certain that the irish staff is not a pitbull but id like to be sure before i go to breed.. its a blue irish staff although being white it has a blue ear and it was the only male from a litter of all full blue females.. they were being sold at 600 a pup.. as from what i take from the information i will be breeding 1 type of staff with another type of staff... and the result will be a pure breed staff as both parents a pure breeds of different staffs.. what would i label the pups and has any body got any experience with irish cross english staffs??

Can I as why you want to breed,especially to a different type ?
Is your bitch tested ?

Hi, first off, why do you want to breed them?

Secondly, when you cross any breed, you can get any variation of the physical and temperamental trates of the parent breeds envolved in the crossing. Btw, the pups would be labeled as staffie or staffie crosses, as that is what they are.

Thirdly, whilst I agree, that most dogs labelled as beeing Irish staffs are not American pitbull terriers, they however, can be classed as pitbull type under section 1 of the dangerous dogs act. Now, by breeding your bitch with this dog, you run the risk of the pups also beeing classed as pitbull type, which if detected, will most likely result in them beeing siezed from their new owners and destroyed. That also goes for the owner of the dog you intend to breed her with.

If I were you, I'd think long and hard about that before you concidder breeding. Could you live with yourself if you found out that one of the pups or more, was destroyed because it grew up into a dog that fits the description of section 1 type. As the breeder, you would be responsible for the death of those dog/s, just as much, or even more so, then anyone who decided to buy one from you.

The answer is they wont be 'pure staffs', as they arent KC registered and pedigree SBT's.

Thus, you will only be creating staffie x's, quite possibly that would end up, under the law of the land, termed as "pitbull types"

Thus, illegal under section 1 of the Dangeorus Dogs Act.

The content of your post gives all the info as to why you should not be breeding with this irish staffie, or as to why you should not be breeding from your own bitch at all.

You should only breed staffies (or any breed) if they have a pedigree certificate of several generations, and the line contains no heriditary illnesses, and your girl and the male have had all the breed specific health tests and have passed them.

And that both dogs are of sound temperament.

Even then, you have to consider that their are hundreds of thousands of staff types all over the UK, all the rescue centres are about 50% full of just staffies and staffy crosses, and therfore many of these types of dogs are being put to sleep day in day out due to being too many of them and no homes.

Therefore, if you breed your girl, you will only be adding to this problem.

Get her spayed.

no i could not and i want to breed her to get a pup for girlfriend to somplete our little family.. and the guy is adamant that it is not a pitbull.. we was recently looking to buy a pup and the guy advised us not to go for anything with pit in the breed as and i quote "i would never get a pit" so this tells me either he is totaly unaware of the debate reguarding irish staffs or he is totaly sure that his dog is not a pit.. we came across a full pit on the park.. and he was so frustrated that somebody would actualy own a pit so generaly beleives that an irish staff is an irish verion of our english staff.. it doesnt not resemble at all the pit we saw..

"You should only breed staffies (or any breed) if they have a pedigree certificate of several generations, and the line contains no heriditary illnesses, and your girl and the male have had all the breed specific health tests and have passed them."


im sorry but it is your opinion that only pedigree dogs should be allowed to breed and frankly i find it quite disturbing.. and as said i wont breed if the pups would be considered pits but as nobody on this website can tell me wether or not irish staffs are in fact pitbulls... it just sounds to me like rumors that are be passed with absolutly no evidence to back it up.. im not interested in pits i have a daughter and im not willing to subject her to the danger that a pit would enevitably bring to the household.. how ever the reason i posted is not to be slated or disagreed with im only trying to find out some hard evidence as to wether the rumors are true.. my staff is pedigree and was tested 2 months ago after her first season.. i am not willing to subject my dog or the pups that she will produce into danger.. im not interested in anything illegal im just bloke who wants to get some pups from my dog so i can love them and care for them

Your friend may be genuine.

No offence intended, but how do you or your freind know what is and isnt a pitbull?

Many section 1 pitbull types are sold as 'irish staffies' by dishonest breeders.

Still, under section 1 of the Dangerous dogs Act, long legged staffies are deemed as 'pitbull types', whether you agree with it or not.

The govenment also advises that 'Irish staffie' is often used as a pseudonym for pitbull. Along with other terms such as 'american staffie'
Therefore, you would be unwise, and potentially beeeding illegal dogs.

Also, by breeding your girl, you would not be breeding poure staffies yourself, as you do not fit any of the criteria i just explained for pedigree breeding in my last post.

There are thousands of unwanted staffies, including pups, rammed full in rescues all over the UK.

Cant you get your g/f one of those?

If you just breed more of thes types of dogs, that just means a couple more get killed due to lack of homes.

why?

also, you can do this without adding to the population explosion and euthanasia stats

I think you maybe missing the point I was trying to make.

It doesn't matter if the dog does or doesn't have pit in its breeding, it just has to look like one.

Let me explain it this way.

You cross a boxer with a labrador, you get 7 pups, 3 look primarily like boxers and another 3 look primarily like labs. The 7th pup, has a mixture of physical characteristics, and dependent on how it grows up, it could be classified as beeing section 1 type, and therefore illegal, and that is how it is.

Doesn't matter if the parents are legal breeds, and the pups have no pit in them, if they fit the description of type then that is what they become, illegal.

But on the other hand, you could have a pitbull cross akita, and if the dog looked more like an akita, then it would be perfectly legal to own, as I understand it, as appearance is all that matters.

Ridiculas, illogical and damned frustraiting.

hi
if you really are adamant to breed,and your girlie is a kc registered sbt...why on earth would you want to use an unregistered stud??:?

sorry but have to be blunt - go to your local rescue - any rescue and see how many staffies and staffie crosses are in kennels without homes, some do have KC papers but nobody wants them - and then tell me again why you feel the need to breed more, especially non KC registered ones.

I work in staffie rescue, we struggle to place so many dogs and we have litters in frequently as the "breeders" struggle to sell them and end up left with pups.

PLease think again before breeding - simple fact is we do not need anymore staffies that arent to breed standard and arent health tested or registered, we have enough to cope with - you are simply adding to the problem by breeding to get a pup. - what about the rest of the pups- can you assure and guarantee a good forever home for them.

YOu simply do not need to breed so dont.