Illegal dog breeds? Controversial

Its just alot of clever marketing by greedy greedy people to make a dog look like a wolf and charge alot of people stupid amounts of money for them. If people want them they only have to go to the local rescue centre and see the hundreds of wolf a like DOGS in there!

*Im just off to find the link[/QUOTE]

Although I agree Gemma it is alot of clever marketing by greedy people, I have only seen 1 dog in a rescue centre that resembled a wolf a like dog, are there really hundreds?

Yes but did the email not confirm that F3 and later generations were no longer classed as wolf-hybrids but as domesticated dogs?

yes it did....

BUT Ramble says that an email from one man doesn't change the law

I would just like to add that I think these are wonderful dogs, the only reason I am posting is because I think threads like this can be misleading and dangerous for people that are interested in the breed. Until there is a change in the law and it specifically and clearly mentions the breeds in question no longer need a licence (not just a letter from a harassed person in an office...) then the law is clear, the documents on the DEFRA site are very clear....there is absolutely no ambiguity in the link I posted.

It does suggest that yes, but as I say it's only a letter from a harrassed person in an office and a letter does not mean that there is a change in the law,if you read the link I posted it is clear that no matter what generation of wolf dog it is (they are treated in a different way to other hybrid species) then they need a licence....

OKay so I get an email from a 'policy advisor' saying I have to pay tax for looking at the moon...does that make it so???? No I think it needs parliament to have something to do with it????

It may also depend on local councils interpretation of the guidelines set down by DEFRA, also if there were any complaints from neighbours or other dog owners ect this may influence local councils stance.

Although I agree Gemma it is alot of clever marketing by greedy people, I have only seen 1 dog in a rescue centre that resembled a wolf a like dog, are there really hundreds?[/QUOTE]



errrmm.......YES!!! I work for Siberian Husky welfare and the majority of phone calls I get (on a daily basis) are about 'Huskies' in rescue centres, I go to assess them and they are NI's, Utangons, Sibe x GSD
I see the bad side of the NI breeders, the out of control dogs given to owners that should not even own a dog. Unfortunately ppl think that if you breed a GSD with a Sibe to make it look 'wolfy' you get all the good sides of the breed, what happens to the bad ones? I also assume that the sibes/mals used in breeding programmes are of sub standard type anyway so you have probably just doubled up on badness

*sorry to go off on one!

Gemma
x

Hey dont sweat Julio any of your other dogs with unknown ancestry could be a NI its very common.

errrmm.......YES!!! I work for Siberian Husky welfare and the majority of phone calls I get (on a daily basis) are about 'Huskies' in rescue centres, I go to assess them and they are NI's, Utangons, Sibe x GSD
I see the bad side of the NI breeders, the out of control dogs given to owners that should not even own a dog. Unfortunately ppl think that if you breed a GSD with a Sibe to make it look 'wolfy' you get all the good sides of the breed, what happens to the bad ones? I also assume that the sibes/mals used in breeding programmes are of sub standard type anyway so you have probably just doubled up on badness

*sorry to go off on one!

Gemma
x[/QUOTE]

Easy there, are these rescue dogs pure NID or crosses that people are trying to sell as NID and if so the breeders in question may not be NI breeders but people who are misleading owners? Sibes,Mals and GSD have not been used for about 18 yrs in NID breeding ( thats IF they were the dogs used in the first place???)

Well in that case DEFRA is misleading everyone..

Because everyone is going to understand that differently..

I think you DO NOT need a licence for CWD & Sarloos

BUT you think they do..


SO who is misleading people?? you or me?? or Defra??

I have read the the DWA Act, the schedule relating to it AND the DEFRA document. The schedule is very clear under both the Canine and Hybrid sections - Domestic dogs are excluded from requiring a license as are hybrids as clarified by the DEFRA spokesman in his letter. I don't understand why you cannot accept the official clarification from the appropriate DEFRA official which simply backs up what is written in the Act (THE LAW). The DEFRA document is in fact NOT THE LAW but is one which attempts to clarify the law. Obviously it was not very successful but it's further clarification by the letter previously posted should be enough for all of us!!

Right...I've said my bit now so I'm off to cuddle my 'muppet' who masquerades as a dog whilst I watch Silent Witness. He's getting achey lying on the floor...needs his sofa time!!!!! Again, I really like these dogs and just because I am quoting and pointing out the law, doesn't mean I necessarily agree with it.

No they don't they actually make an exception for a particularly closely crossed cat but noth the wolf

No The document CLARIFIES the ambiguous part of the law and specifically states Sarloos and CWD need a licence (see ealier quote)...... off for my cuddles on the sofa now...


Louise I think the trouble is that DEFRA are obviously being plagued by phone calls and they are therefore harassed...I may email the bloke myself tomorrow if I get a minute...ahhhh....not likely....bloomin puppies...

No....they are clear about wolves...

one was a bit bull terrierish - don't think anyone could have mistaken that for a wolfy looking dog

Yes....domestic dogs are fine...Sarloos and CWD however are not classed as doemstic dogs by DEFRA in the document given.

Then surely all dogs need licenses as they all descend from wolves

7.4 Domestic Wolfdog Breeds
Two domestic, recognised wolfdog breeds have been developed in Europe. Both contain
relatively recent wolf genes, the motivation being the improvement of existing working dogs.
The oldest of the wolfdog breeds is the Saarloos Wolfdog, which was developed in an attempt
to ameliorate the German Shepherd Dog, thought to be losing some of its working qualities
and inheriting inbred defects. The Saarloos wolfdog was developed by Lendeert Saarloos in
1921 by crossing a European wolf with a German Shepherd Dog. The breeding was
rigorously controlled over generations, and the resulting dog now contains around 25% wolf.
Saarloos failed in his attempt to create a exceptional working dog, but the breed was widely
used as guide dogs for the blind until the 1960s, when a further injection of wolf genes raised
the content of the animals to around 33% (Hull, undated). The breed is wolf-like in
appearance, and retains many wolf characteristics such as a narrow chest, a wolf-like gait and
an extremely shy temperament.
The second recognised breed is the Czechoslovakian wolfdog, developed by I.K. Hartl in the
late 1950s. Again, the breed was founded by a mating between a wolf and a German
Shepherd Dog; the animals are similar in appearance to the Saarloos. The breed was
recognised by the Cynologic Organization of Czechoslovakia in 1982 (Dunn, undated).
In the United States, two further breeds are being developed. They have been named the
“Timber Shepherd” and the “Tundra Shepherd” and, although they seem to be gaining
popularity in the U.S., they have not been officially recognised as domestic dog breeds. Both
breeds are reported to contain approximately 25% wolf (Hull, undated).
In the U.K., the “Northern Inuit” breed is being developed and, although no recent wolf
ancestry is claimed, they have been advertised as “wolf look-alikes”(Kelham, 1999 personal
communication).
None of the above breeds are recognised by the British Kennel Club (Kennel Club, 1999,
personal communication). Those breeds claiming a wolf content, however diluted, must still
be licensed under the DWAA if imported to this country.


I think that about sums it up. Taken from...
http://www.defra.gov.uk/science/Proj...3_2189_FRP.pdf
So....those dogs with a wolf content ...NO MATTER HOW DILUTED need a licence...it actually says that with reference to the Sarloos and CWD.