Origins & Practices of the British Inuit General Chat

lfu, who is this breeder ...

I have no idea but I think it was the Plymouth area. So think it could be from CRYWOLF kennels.

I have heard this is happening in NIs also from many different sources

So what is a British Inuit? Maybe a NI? Maybe a NI/CWD cross? Which is it? If it is both (or more!) then you can't say one BI is the same as another, so why do they have the same name? :?

why would it necessarily automatically be because of the CzW part of the mix???

What large breed is for novice owners? I know I don't think NI arn't for novice owners either.

Well I wonder what the bite statistics are for them as they are kept as any other breed of dog throughout Europe - so they must not see them as the same as wild animals? What would the mannerisms be?

It could be that a breeder made a poor choice as to what breeders they obtained their CzW so the CzW was badly breed - it could be on the NI side of things that they bred from a dog with aggression - I'm sure it exists in NI just like any other breed...It could be the enviroment the dog is living in etc etc - not just because it has CzW blood.

Hi all,

I don't know the answer so I'm only guessing. But I'd think she only breeds NI with NI, but uses NI, BI, and CWD for the BI breed.

With regards to the CWD thing, I did say on the other thread that these are sold with the new owners knowledge, along with all papers. It's certainly not done in a sneaky way, there's even a warning on her kennel page stating the requirement for an agreement from some councils.

The "who knows what could come in out incertain circumstances with them?" could be said of many many breeds, unless you were thinking of a specific circumstance?

Over the last few years I have looked for cases concerning CWD and Saarloos in Europe and have found only one case of a CWD biting a family member (in a house that had 3 Saarloos dogs as well), I have heard no reports of public Saarloos biting. In France both these dogs are regarded as companion animals and do not appear on the Dangerous dogs list (as Rotweiller do; they have to wear a muzzle in public for an example). Yes both dogs will bite but so will my neighbours Bauceron and a my friends Border Collie. You must remember that the CWD was developed as a POLICE DOG and has a temprement closer to that of a Mallinois, (now being used by the UK police) and needs an experienced owner, though I know of many who are spolit family dogs. If you dont think you have the experience or the time for this type of dog; don't get one. There must be a lot of owners of these NI/CWD cross bred dogs in the UK, many litters per year for several years. why do we not hear from them?http://www.dogsey.com/images/smilies/002.gif

I think they have abandoned using them anymore as they were becoming to agressive. Thats what a dog handler told me.

I have heard from people who come from the cwd neck of the woods that they are a very agressive breed of dog, these people are very afraid of n.i's because they look similar x

Mys.
I think MOST NI owners, certainly many of them are novice owners, whilst you think the NI is not for novice owners, plenty of "breeders" appear too.

I think loads of large breeds are suited to novice owners, one and main reason being these dogs have been round for ages and ages and their history, and character is well documented and apparent, the same cannot be said of the CWD.

Can I just add in here I was not having a go at the czechs and all my questions i have asked on here I HAVE asked the breeder and im still waiting for a reply
I would never recommend a NI to a first time dog owner or a novice owner, they are to hard and are one of the toughest breeds i've dealt with.
I just dont believe that a wild animal ( which a czech is) can be kept as a pet, i believe the same about lynx cats as they have to much wolf and wild cat in them its like trying to convince me that you can keep a wild wolf as a pet without being bitten
and I think that the more they are advertised in the uk the more we will see being pts as soon as they hit the terrible teen stage, because people will buy them for the rough tough image and again the dogs will suffer.
If the breeder is putting czech in her BI's to make them more wolfy then she needs to make people aware of the POTENTIAL danger they can be, which she has only started doing recently.
I'd also expect a decent breeder of this type of dog not sell to people who have small kids or other small furry animals as in my eyes that would just be a accident waiting to happen, weither the dog was brought up with them as a pup or not.

wouldn't breed them at all !

Thank you

The post above gives a balanced opinion.

Likewise, if you want a dog you can take to a small park and play fetch - that has no prey instinct and is easily taught to recall then don't get an NI either!

Then they are NIs and should be called that :? Registering them with a `club` or `org` does not change what the dogs are from their parentage. A Poodle is a Poodle, a Lab is a Lab, an NI is an NI.

Then any offspring are not `a breed` at all, they are crossbreeds so they should be called that

Czechoslovakian Wolfdog's may well have a specific temperament but they are not wild animals - I don't think CsW owners consider they have a wild animal? They seem to be as against people breeding wolves / wolf hybrids as pets as anyone - I don't think any of them consider that they have anything other than a domestic breed of dog that takes a certain amount of dedication to get the best out of it. I think it is a bit far fetched to equate them to pure wild wolves.

I don't 'think' NI are not for a novice owner I KNOW they are not! They were indeed my first large breed - if my two, especially my boy had of gone to many other people other than myself - I'm quite sure they would have gotten more than they bargained for!! Keena's temperament is bullet proof but she has still given me some big time run arounds and has shown me things I didn't really expect at first - Takoda is much more hard work than her mostly due to his much bigger size. A male NI like my boy - 100lbs plus, is definitely for a dedicated person only. Just because you think some breeders think the NI are ok for novice owners - most people that are honest will say many of our dogs are not.

As for the CsW - I couldn't say anything on them to be set in stone, like most people on this forum because I would have to meet many to build an opinion - I already don't believe that they are for novice owners that is for sure but I am still of the opinion that if all fails in these crossings that it shouldn't only be blamed on the CsW content - but maybe the breeders lack of thought...And that to me is the most sensible opinion for me to make.

Breed standard of the Czechoslovakian Wolfdog:

Standard F.C.I.
(Nr.332/03.09.1999)

ORIGIN:
Former Czechoslovakian Republic

PATRONAGE:
Slovakian Republic.

DATE OF PUBLICATION OF THE VALID ORIGINAL STANDARD:
03.09.1999

UTILIZATION:
Working Dog.

CLASSIFICATION F.C.I.:
Group 1 (Sheepdogs and Cattle Dogs)
Section 1 (Sheepdogs with Working Trial)

BRIEF HISTORICAL SUMMARY:
In the year 1955 a biological experiment took place in the CSSR of that time, namely, the crossing of a German Shepherd Dog with a Carpathian wolf. The experiment established that the progeny of the mating of male dog to female wolf as well as that of male wolf to female dog, could be reared. The overwhelming majority of the products of these matings possessed the genetic requirements for continuation of breeding. In the year 1965, after the ending of the experiment, a plan for the breeding of this new breed was worked out. This was to combine the usable qualities of the wolf with the favourable qualities of the dog. In the year 1982, the Czechoslovakian Wolfdog, through the general committee of the breeder's associations of the CSSR of that time, was recognized as a national breed.

GENERAL APPEARANCE:
Firm type in constitution. Above average size with rectangular frame. In body shape, movement, coat texture, colour of coat and mask, similar to the wolf.

IMPORTANT PROPORTIONS:
Length of body : Height at Withers : 10 : 9
Length of muzzle : Length of cranial region : 1 : 1.5.

BEHAVIOUR-TEMPERAMENT:
Lively, active, tough, obedient with quick reactions, fearless and courageous. Shows tremendous loyalty towards his master. Resistant to weather conditions. Versatile in his uses.

HEAD
Symmetrical, well muscled. Seen from the side and from above, it forms a blunt wedge. Sex should be unmistakable.

CRANIAL REGION:
Seen from the side and from the front, the forehead is slightly arched. No marked frontal furrow. Occipital bone clearly visible.
Stop: Moderate.

FACIAL REGION:
Nose: Oval shape, black.
Muzzle: Clean, not broad, straight bridge of nose.
Lips: Tight fitting. No gap at corner of mouth. Rims of lips are black.
Jaws/Teeth: Jaws strong and symmetrical. Well developed teeth, specially the canines. Scissor or pincer bite with 42 teeth according to the usual tooth formation. Regular teeth set.
Cheeks: Clean, sufficiently muscled, not markedly protruding.
Eyes: Small, slanting, amber coloured. Close fitting lids.
Ears: Pricked, thin, triangular, short (i.e. not longer than 1/6th of height at withers); the lateral point of the set on of the ears and the outer corner of the eyes are in a direct line. A vertical line from tip of ear would run close along the head.

NECK
Dry, well muscled. In repose forms an angle of up to 40 degrees to the horizontal. The neck must be sufficiently long for the nose to touch the ground effortlessly.

BODY
Topline: Flowing transition from neck to body. Sloping away slightly.
Withers: Well muscled, pronounced. Though pronounced, they must not interrupt the flow of the top line.
Back: Firm and straight.
Loins: Short, well muscled, not broad, sloping slightly.
Croup: Short, well muscled, not broad, falling away slightly.
Chest: Symmetrical, well muscled, roomy, pear shaped and narrowing towards the sternum. The depth of chest does not reach to the elbows. The point of the sternum does not extend beyond the shoulder joints.
Lower line and belly: Taut belly, tucked up. Slightly hollow in flanks.

TAIL
Set on high, hanging straight down. When dog is excited, generally raised up in sickle shape.

LIMBS
FOREQUARTERS: The front legs are straight, clean, close together with slightly turned out feet.
Shoulders: The shoulder-blade is placed rather far forward, well muscled. It forms an angle of nearly 65 degrees to the horizontal.
Upper arm: Strongly muscled, forms an angle of 120 to 130 degrees to the shoulder-blade.
Elbows: Close fitting, turned neither in nor out, well defined, flexible. Upperarm and forearm form an angle of approximately 150 degrees.
Forearm: Long, clean and straight. The length of the forearm and pastern is 55% of height at withers.
Pastern joint: Solid, flexible.
Pastern: Long, forms an angle of at least 75 degrees to the ground. Lightly springy in movement.
Front feet: Large, turned slightly outwards. Longish arched toes and strong, dark nails. Well defined, elastic, dark pads.

HINDQUARTERS
Powerful. The hind legs stand parallel. An imaginary vertical line drawn from the point of the ischium, would run midway through the hock joint. Dew-claws not desirable and should be removed.
Upper thigh: Long, well muscled. Forms an angle of 80 degrees to the pelvis. The hip joint is sturdy and flexible.
Knee: Strong, flexible.
Lower thigh: Long, clean, well muscled. Forms an angle of about 130 degrees with the metatarsus.
Hock joint: Clean, solid, flexible.
Hocks: Long, clean. Position almost vertical to the ground.
Hind feet: Longish, arched toes with strong dark nails. Well defined pads.

MOVEMENT
Harmonious, light footed, ground covering trot in which the limbs skim over the ground as closely as possible. Head and neck incline to the horizontal. Pacing when walking.

SKIN
Elastic, tight, without wrinkles, unpigmented.

COAT
MAKE UP OF COAT: Straight, close. Winter and summer coat differ greatly. In winter an immense undercoat together with the topcoat, forms a thick coat all over the body. It is necessary for the hair to cover the belly, the inside of the upper thigh, the scrotum, the inner part of the ears and the area between the toes. Well coated neck.
COLOUR: Yellowish-gray to silver-gray with a characteristic light mask. Light hair also on the underside of the neck and the forechest. Dark gray colour with mask is permissible.

HEIGHT AND WEIGHT
Height at Withers:
Dogs at least 65 cm
Bitches at least 60 cm
Weight:
Dogs at least 26 kg
Bitches at least 20 kg

FAULTS :
Any departure from the foregoing points should be considered a fault, and the seriousness with which the fault should be regarded should be in exact proportion to its degree.
- Heavy or light head.
- Flat forehead.
- Missing 2 PM1 or both M3 sould not be consided as a fault. If additionally for missing two PM1 also one M3 is missing or for missing M3 also one PM1 is missing, it should be judged as a fault.
- Dark brown, black or different coloured eyes.
- Coarse ear. High or low set on of ear.
- Neck carried high in repose; low position of neck when standing.
- Unpronounced withers.
- Untypical topline.
- Long croup.
- Tail long, set on low and not carried correctly.
- Too little or too much angulation in forequarters.
- Weak pastern.
- Too little or too much angulation in hinquarters. Insufficient muscle.
- Barely pronounced mask.
- Short wavy movement.

DISQUALIFYING FAULTS :
- Aggresive or overly shy.
- Discrepancy in proportions.
- Faults in deportment and temperament.
- Untypical head.
- Missing teeth (beside 2 PM1 and M3, see § FAULTS). Irregular bite.
- Untypical shape and position of eye.
- Untypical set on and shape of ears.
- Dewlap.
- Strong slope in croup.
- Untypical ribcage.
- Tail untypical in set on and carriage.
- Faulty and untypical position of front legs.
- Stand -off and untypical coat.
- Colours other than those in the standard.
- Slack ligaments.
- Untypical movement.

Then you cross it with a dog containing guarding and herding abilities, very high prey drive and supposed submission on attack, TROUBLE!

I dont think anyone is qualified to give an opinion on LIVING with a CWD on this forum except the one that does own one, the people in this country are NOT living with them as pets they are keeping breeding stock and nothing more, recipie for disaster IMO. Dont forget the Pit Bull was always kept outside as a "tool" rather than a pet, then they crept in as people thought they were "cool" look what happened there.