Perfect stafford - what would your ideal Staffordshire Bull Terrier look like? Discussions

tusker for one id have to disagree with you on them not bein the norm the breeder who bred these dogs has had 6 kc champions within the last ten years all along the same lines of dogs and other dogs he has breed have also done well in the show ring all looking similar. and i think youll find alot of the other kc ch dogs from along these lines .and to answer your second question no i have not seen these dogs personally do there ten miles ,but you dont look like that from a swift run round the park ,as could also be said of any fit dogs youve posted pics of we have not seen them do there ten mile and only have your word for it :wink: im am not desputin the fact your dogs may be bred for workin and be ultimitly fit but i dont think the show dogs are bein portrayed in a fair light .

There are many breeds prone to HD.....REPUTABLE show breeders health teast and are improving the problem in all breeds.
I am not saying you are lying...I am saying that some people do!I just think that because these dogs aren't the leggy type you require doesn't mean they are ALL unfit useless lumps.I'm sure there are some dogs that win that have health problems or are incapable of the amounts of exercise you require from your dogs... but that doesn't mean that all show winning satffs can't perform a good days exercise as you say
Off to work now...

when you talk of gameness i think maybe if your workin it as hard as you might yer you need a lot of gameness but as a pet and companion ,show dog or however even staffs at the most bottom level will have a lot more gameness than nearly all dogs outside the bull terrier ,and that should be enough.

as if one could with this breed

so does anyone think the standard should be changed then?
and if so how do you breed for consistancy if you make the parameters too large?

This is very interesting debate moving at 10000 miles an hour.

This is what I started to write when I came home but had to have my dinner now the post has carried on.
Hello I have just got in from work. And thought I'd join the debate.

I have Staffs have had for many years and although I like staffs there are some I don't - ie Ones with dodgy tempraments and unfit ones.
Other than that I like all of them - be they KC reg and 16" or non KC reg and 18". Its the character of the dog I like - not the outer packaging.
Although saying that I have two "reasonably" bred KC reg Stafford bitches. And the other 3 staffs I've owned in my lifetime have been KC reg - although my last old bitch Gyp had "Amo's bane" as her gt gt grandsire, on her Dam's side along with Silver Bomber and "Rip Van Winkle on her sires but she was KC Reg.

All have been fit, there is little crueler than keeping an overweight dog of any breed. My pup is just coming to the age to start excercising properly (when she's out of season)
The older one Sal although KC reg and more than likely not as fit as your's Tusker- ie she is not "working" but is capable (and does) run 15 miles three times a week over rough terrain with my brother when he's training (he does Iron man competitions) and he picks her up and takes her with him she adores it. She has been doing this for about 4 months now he has built up his own endurance too. However also 4 times a week he runs 5 miles on footpaths and she accompanies on that too. I do road walk her daily she does 4/5 mile on lead road walking. As well as free running in the park, while I stroll. We do about 3-4 hours of that 3 times a week. Freerunning chasing the ball up and down the slope
she goes for about 20 minutes every day.

She does agility on Tuesday evenings and enjoys it - she is a PAT dog and we visit a hospice twice a month, and now a school for Autistic children four times a year. Which she enjoys very much too. We go to ringcraft when I think about it

The pup does some of the above but not to the same level/distance/timescale of course being only 7 months. But will.

But I must say of the photo;s of the bitch (Irish) and Show dog (KC) I would not have either. The bitch is "fit" but not to my taste. And the dog is also not to my taste.

But thats the point isn;t it "MY TASTE" is all that really matters when I choose my dog.

However as you can see not all KC reg dogs are couch potatoes, and I have seen many who are kept "fit" by running alongside a bike. But equally I see many who are in and out of the ring being "plump"

And Lel the change of Standard is an interesting question one I will ponder on.
Karen

would be a pretty sad world if every dog were identical

The Stafford standard was first agreed upon in 1935 after much discussion I believe. But altered in 1948 with changes to

Eyes - they should have left this point alone I think.
Ears - a good progressive step.
Colour They added the blue colour.
Height, meant to get better balanced dogs.
Mouth and Nose A good step almost allowing exhibits to be disqualified if affected.

So what would anyone change about the standard - for the progression of the breed I mean not just a fad?

Karen

does it need changing?

the most important word there is BALANCE!!!!!

Exactly Lel. Balance.

I think it should be changed to allow for greater height, that would be a good starting point, and the colours that are presently penalised should be allowed ie red nosed reds, livers, and blacdk and tans, with a breed like the stafford the saying a good dog is never a bad colour is very fitting.
Eye colour shouldnt be penalised to allow for a bit more genetic divergence than just the bog standard black brindle dogs, and a dog with a longer body, neck, legs and muzzle should be encouraged.

this is just in my little fantasy world of course!

CBT
do you breed your staffys to the KC standard or to your own preference?

CBT The height was changed back in 1948 from the 1935 standard.

Height standard;
1935 = 15"-18" 1948 = 14"-16"
This was to get better balanced specimens

Colours 1948 added the blue. But still not encourage black and tan or liver. It is belived that because BT is a dominant colour and would soon take over the others. And liver because the colour is associated with the unwanted dudley nose.

And the idea of a red nosed Red/pink nosed dog is unbelivable.

And the idea that eye colour shouldn;t be penalised is unbelivable good pigment is a neccesity for depth of colour.

And why would you want a longer body?

I breed irish dogs, they dont fit the KC standard, none of my dogs do, and thats the way I like it. Im not 100% against the standard, but more certain breeders and judges interpretations of it.
I would never breed KC dogs - I like staffs to be bigger, and longer in the neck, body, legs, and muzzle, I havent seen many KC staffs that fit my requirements of an "ideal" dog

I thought you said on another board you bred staffys and irish staffs?

who cares what colour the dogs nose or eyes are?
So long as the dogs are healthy what does it matter what colour any part of their body is?
I think a longer body is better because it gives them more lung room, and longer bodied, leaner bitches whelp better. I like the look of a longer bodied dog, thats my taste.
I prefer longer muzzles as short squashed up muzzles can only lead to breathing problems.
i prefer a longer neck because I think it makes the dog look "lighter" and less stuffy if that makes sense.
I like a dog which looks like it can kill its own dinner, run for miles, stand its ground if challenged and live a long and active life.
When I look at some of the show dogs winning all the prizes I would give them 5 minutes running beside my dogs and I bet they would be knackered, sides heaving, snorting and gasping for breath.
Cant be any more honest than that and still remain tactful :wink:

whiter the better

I do , I breed dogs which are predominantly irish bred (psycho/KK lines) and I also breed a line of staffords, which are a mix of non KC dogs and Irish.

At the end of the day they are all staffords as far as Im concerned. the only difference is they are not bred to a set standard.

on the subject of colour, blue to me is a dilution of black so not a very apealing colour ,but to people it may apeal too the price some people want to charge is horrific as it maybe not better dog than its litter mate who may be another colour

well as long as it can run 10 miles who cares?