Slovakian Rough Haired Pointer Discussions

Hi

Indy & Keeva look lovely.

I think Cheska & Bo are very very alike too, they seem to have the same zest & enthusiasm for everything too! lol.I know what you mean about that look! Am so so pleased with her, she is a sweetheart at times! She's going on her hols next week, which will be interesting!

I hope Grey is feeling better really soon, nothing worse than knowing your dog is in pain. They are all big girls would be interesting to see how the boys from that litter turned out. I must say it is nice having two dogs they do tend to be good company for each other, our terrier is very high energy and i know somtimes two high energy dogs together doesn't always work, but they seem to get along fine.

Bo isn't a 'big' dog really...she is tall-ish, but substance wise she is a very lean lady. Only 28kgs or so, so certainly not massive.

As for having two dogs, not sure I could handle two Slovaks at the moment! my Lab boy is super laid back and lazy in the house which is good...two super high energy dogs bouncing off each other isn't my idea fun.

Hi I am posting in the hope that either Londonlou or tatty2366 see this and are able to offer any further guidance on the pain condition in SRHPs.

I posted a while back introducing our Slovak Jed. He will be one this week and is from Rosetinted, his mum is Stormdancer Nudge.

Jed became ill yesterday afternoon, appearing to be in a lot of pain when trying to move, particularly when getting up and down. This came on very suddenly and was a bit of a mystery as he hasn't sustained any injury and was running around like a loon on Friday.

My husband remembered reading about Grey and Indy so I read back through the postings last night and it does sound the same.

He has been at the vets most of the day today, so far he has just had bloods and painkillers. He is going back in the morning for a spinal tap. The vet thinks it may be sterile meningitis which they are going to test for. Thanks to you guys sharing your experiences I was able to make some notes from the thread for the vet so they are going to investigate Grey and Indy's condition as well. Hopefully if it is the same condition this will lead to an early diagnosis and treatment for Jed.

Any other guidance on how it was eventually diagnosed and treatment would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for your help.

Sorry to hear that Jed is suffering, it's never nice to see any dog in pain. Firstly can I say that there is no indication that this is a Slovak problem, it just happens that we are all Slovak owners in contact at the moment. Indy's specialist did say that this could not be genetic.

Indy presented with immense pain, very suddenly, when standing or laying down. He had previously been his normal self, hunting the pheasants and rabbis where we walk that morning. He was taken to the vets where she could find no sore spots, he had no temp or any other symptoms. They kept him in for xrays and blood tests which showed nothing obvious. He was treated with Metacam for the pain and sent home as the pain had subsided. Boxing day he was back in severe pain again and I took him straight back to the vet who referred him to a specialist. They initially thought it might be meningitis and kept him for four days, doing a spinal tap, x rays, blood tests and joint fluid tests. These all came back normal and Indy did not appear to be in any pain whilst at the specialists, I was beginning to think I had imagined it, luckily others had seen it too.

For the next 6 weeks he was kept on Metacam and seemed good, he was also under 'house arrest', I had dreaded the thought as he normally has two hours a day free running. He was actually very good about it as was his younger sister who didn't want to go anywhere without him anyway.

During the next six weeks we had the odd moments of pain but it never seemed to last for too long. Finally it got really bad again and I actually videoed it for the specialist and took him there the next day. Up until then he had only seen an orthopaedic specialist, this time the neurologist was called in and he kept Indy in to do an MRI. This is when they finally diagnosed Discospondylitis which is an infection of one or more disks from an unknown source but probably a urinary infection. For the next six weeks he had two doses of Metronidazole and Cephalexin (Ceporex) both antibiotics and Gabapentin, a painkiller, for two weeks. In total we had thirteen weeks of house arrest, and yes I still have my whole house standing. I am very pleased to say that Indy has recovered completely and is back to his normal loveable self.

I wish you good luck with Jed and hope the vet gets a diagnosis quickly. Please let me know what happens!

Tatty

Oh dear, worrying indeed. I'm sure Tatty's info will help you though; sounds like it could be the same thing?

Dear Tatty

Thanks so much for posting a response so quickly and for sharing all the information on your experience with Indy.

There was nothing obvious showing on Jed's x-rays today but hopefully we should get results from bloods and the spinal tap tomorrow. If meningitis is ruled out then they will refer him to a specialist for an MRI to check for Discospondylitis.

Thanks to you and Londonlou sharing your experiences on here we were able to raise this as a possible cause with the vet. As horrible as it has been to see him in that much pain it has been reassuring to have an idea what might be causing it and that it is treatable.

They have kept him in over night tonight as he is in a lot of pain and they feel they can manage it better there with injections. He has had a pain relieve patch put on so once it kicks in we should be able to have him home with us again tomorrow.

He has had a truly rotten 1st birthday today but fingers crossed he will be better and able to tuck into his pressies soon.

Jed's very grateful family.

Hi Jed and family,

I'm glad to be of help, especially as I know a little of what you are going through. The other dog I have heard of had an infection of the thorassic vertbrae but he and Indy are not related at all so there is no connection there.

The only pain killer that worked for Indy was the Gabapentin and I assume that is because of the type of infection etc.

Luckily dogs, even clever Slovaks, don't know when their birthdays are! lol. No doubt you will make up for his absence when he returns home, I know we did.

Indy, Keeva and I are all keeping our fingers and toes crossed for you (it made our run a little slower but never mind). Please keep us informed of what is happening with Jed it will be great to hear once all is well again.

Tatty, Indy and Keeva

Oh my goodness. I've only just seen this. I'm really sorry and yes it does sound so very similar to Indy, Grey and also Grey's brother Gunner. I would recommend getting a referral straight away for more specialist investigations. Grey went to the Animal Health Trust in Newmarket to the neurologist Fabio Stabile. But they couldn't find anything, perhaps because we found it so early because we didn't take risks knowing info from Gunner. Where as Grey's brother Gunner suffered for ages being treated for pain and then later was diagnosed after an MRI with discospondylitis. I'm happy to have your vet access my dog's vet records if it helps and I know Lissa, Gunner's owner will probably say the same.
The important thing is we are speaking to our breeder Sandra Rowbury who has agreed to update the health stats and where possible try to find an answer to these problems. Have you contacted Dan at Rosetinted?
Now there are so many of these young dogs with this problem it is becoming clearer that there must be something else at play. A compromised immune system will leave them less able to fight off infections.
Are you able to message me? If you search for my blog called Grey's Days or look up the slovakian rough haired pointer group on the social net working site called the face and the book. I can send you info.

Lots of love,

Louise and Grey

Thought I would add Grey's treatment details for you, Jed. Because he was treated with broad spectrum anti-biotics with the local vet before we ran the full tests, we possibly lost some of the data. I too was told that the condition itself is not hereditary and is more than likely environmental. But when I spoke with my second opinion vet yesterday when I told him re Tatty's Indy too I heard him sound surprised and interested on the phone and then he agreed that there is a possibility of some kind of pre-disposition to taking on infections like this if an immune system is challenged. Grey also has some further level of evidence that the other dogs that have suffered this pain condition don't have. And that is the results from his dental records. I've mentioned it before, but in case you missed it. Because he was operated on by a dental specialist when he still had his baby teeth, they were able to see the ridges and patchy enamel. The dentist said this came from the presence of infections in his system when he was tiny when his teeth were forming. Grey was also the puppy I think that ran the earliest fecal tests for infections out of the ones that I was in touch with who had the prolonged runs. They found two serious infections that are picked up from the environment: Giardia and Campylobacter. So he had an early blast of antibiotics specific to the infections they found when he was 11 weeks old. I think other people that I saw on this forum had suffered with pups with the runs for longer and some were given broad spectrum anti-biotics but not specific.

Looking at this pain episode, it sounds like either Grey's pain condition was less severe than Indy and Gunner or we caught it earlier because we had the knowledge of the other dogs treatment. Underlying infections can affect the immune system if left not 100% treated within the system.
We don't know where Grey picked up an infection or what it was this time. We know it went away when treated with a change in antibiotic - Cephorum 500mg 2 x per day.
I hope that Jed makes a speedy recovery. Grey has ended up being kept off for 1 month with no exercise because of all the investigations and treatment. But once they found the right medication he was back on his feet after a week.


Nick Elder the breeder in ireland has looked into the effects of campylobacter. All of these infections are present in the environment and indeed on our bodies they become a problem when our bodies are unable to fight them off and they are present in sufficient numbers.

Jed, I just had an email from Lissa, Gunner's owner:

"No need for MRI scan, myeline xray shows up this condition. will need blood and urine samples to grow culture to identify bacteria, but specialist should put him on anti-biotics and pain killers and gaba-pentin and anit-convulsant. This is definately the same condition as Gunner, onset at same age 1year."
The dogs being related will need looking into the more numbers come forward with issues. Especially now we have epilepsy in the mix.

Hi Louise,

Just wanted to say a big thank you for replying to my plea for information and for sharing your experience with Grey.

I wanted to let you and Tatty know how Jed is getting on, the good news is he has started treatment and fingers crossed is on the mend.

He went in last Monday for a spinal tap, x-rays, bloods, urine etc and ended up staying in until Wednesday. He was still in extreme pain and his vet felt they needed to keep him in to manage it. We brought him home Wednesday with a strong pain relief patch in place whilst we waited for the last of the test results. On Friday they diagnosed sterile meningitis, the tests had indicated a very high white blood cell count, proteins but no evidence of infection. The cultures they had grown showed no sign of bacterial infection either.

The extreme pain was being caused by the inflammation on the spine. Which explains why his pain was presenting just like Indy, Grey and Gunner. It sounded so similar that I was convinced it must be the same condition.

He was started on a high dose of steroids (Prednidale) to reduce the inflammation and suppress his immune system which had gone into overdrive.

It was a stressful w/e as the vet had made it clear that meningitis is diagnosed by a process of elimination rather than a conclusive test. If there was an infection present that was not showing up then by suppressing his immune system with steroids he would go down hill rapidly. Needless to say we have been watching him like a hawk and keeping everything crossed.

Its Tuesday now and he seems to be improving every day, the side effects of the steroids are really kicking in though. He has always been a terrible food thief but now he is starving all the time and weeing for England, had me up twice last night. Its a small price to pay to see him up and about again.

I had only posted once before as had been following the progress of Jed's litter mates on the thread and thought it would be nice to introduce him.

Its comforting to know that there are experienced slovak owners out there especially ones as well informed as you guys.

Take care and love to Grey, Indy and Keeva

Emma and Jed

Glad to hear that Jed is improving each day.

Continued good thoughts from me.

Hi Emma,

Oh gosh, poor Jed. You have really been through it haven't you. Poor lad. Very glad he's home and you seem to have hopefully found an answer. What a mystery that we need to get to the bottom of.

My friend Dawn has a 3 year old slovak bitch who had meningitis (not sure which type) and she has experience of steroids and their side effects. We're all on the slovak group on the social networking site called the Face and the book. You can contact me via Grey's blog. There is an email address for me there: greytheslovak AT the really famous internet search engine. (damn this forum for not allowing posting of links).

We've asked the breed rep for the slovak breed club to collate and publish the health stats to include details of our dogs' reported issues so that other owners might be able to get help if theirs come down with something.

Have you let the breeder and breed club know?

It was crucial for Grey's treatment that we knew about the other cases. It helped speed up his referral and treatment. I have no doubt that if we had not known then his treatment might have been like his brother's and it would have taken months to get to the bottom of.

Worrying news I have today is that Grey is limping badly again and is back on Metacam and rest. We will do the same tomorrow and talk to the vet on Thurs.

I hope we can all really soon get back to posting goofy stories about our lovable rogues.

L
x

Hi Emma and Jed,

I'm glad to hear you finally have a diagnosis and that treatment has been started. Hopefully he will be back to his normal self very soon.

It's a shame about the steroids but if they make him better then he will just have to tough it out and learn to be a bit quicker and better at getting that extra food, lol.

Once Jed is completely recovered if at any time you fancy getting together for a walk with the dogs then please let me know, as we 're both in Essex it seems a shame not to.

Please keep us informed of Jed's progress it's great to hear once they are fully recovered and back to there normal loveable selves.

Take care and love n hugs to you all,
Tania, Indy and Keeva

Hi Emma and Jed,

How is Jed doing? Have been thinking about you. Hope he's making a good recovery. I might be asking your advice soon. Grey is back at a specialist clinic. He's now lame and is being seen by an orthopedic specialist in Herts. We go back on next Weds for surgery to investigate his shoulder and why he's lame in a front leg. They said today meningitis was not ruled out.

Are any of you going to the funday in Hawkhurst?

Hi Lonodonlou,

Sorry to hear Grey is limping so badly again. Which Specialists are you seeing, I was wondering if it was the same one as Indy did. He saw Rob Rayward at Davies.

I hope they find out what is wrong quickly.

We're considering going to the fun day but I'm having car trouble at the moment so not sure if we will be able to.

take care
Tania

Hi Tania,

Yes, we've been referred to Davies. We saw Mark Morton yesterday and also spoke with head of department Richard Whitelock on the phone. Who now looking through the 'meet the staff' section on their website was someone who made a lovely fuss of Grey in the waiting room when passing through. It's great that they have experience of slovaks then in house. Now feel in good hands.

I had to do some Ttouch to try to relax Grey in the waiting room. Orthopedic manipulation of a dog in pain is quite testing to say the least! He was great but has become an expert wriggler when pressed firmly on the spine and shoulder.

Maybe we should organise an impromtu southern slovak walk meet up at some point. I think Lissa and Gunner would be up for it and she also has another friend close by with a young slovak called Otto.

Lou
x

Hi Lou,

I hope all is going well with Grey!

If you want I am hapy for you to mention Indy to them especially if it helps in anyway with Grey's diagnosis. His first visit was 28.12.09 when he saw Rob Rayward but he was also seen at a later date by Mark Lowrie, a neurologist. For some reason he may not be registered with them as a Slovak but as a Weimaraner/GWP cross. All the staff were very good with Indy and he didnt even seem to mind his stay either.

A meet a some point would be good, I do love to see my two running around enjoying life so a bigger group walk must be great. Pehaps we can get Jed and his family along too.

Please let me know how Grey is doing.

Take care
Tania

Hi Tania,

Thanks! It would be great to meet up sometime. Have also found someone in Hastings who has a male slovak who would like to meet up. Perhaps we can organise something. Thanks for the good wishes tomorrow. Hopefully we'll find an answer.
Now I just have to manage to print off the new breed club health form and vet records to send in for their next newsletter and to the KC.

Love Lou and Grey x

Hiya,

Next diagnosis is he now has damage to ligaments on inside of shoulder. Has to have 6 weeks of controlled rest. No stairs, jumping or running. On strict instructions to take him outside on lead for toilet and back in. Then 2 x 15 min gentle walks on lead per day. So have moved crate, him and me into the bedroom which is only one that has no stairs to outside. Everywhere else has about 8 steps.

Going to be boring summer. But at least we know what we're fixing this time.