Reply from No10 re permission to band dogs tails Controversial

Thanks for that exemption ;-)

Hi Patch Can't disagree that there are some dogs that cope extremely well on three legs but the fact remains that they would never be as efficient as with four. And I've known some that just haven't coped well at all.

There's also the trauma to the remaining legs, increasing the chances of premature bone and soft tissue damage.

Nope, can't see that tail docking comes anywhere near leg amputation if we're comparing pros and cons.

Was not a problem I felt it highly inappropriate to generalize so much, and it would of only played on my mind if i hadn't!

I think the reason the lamb bit comes up so often, well this is my view on why it is rellevant is, with the exception of yourself and Ramble [and probably others too], people tend to forget that the same procedure, yet carried out later when pain is felt MORE so, is done on lambs..yet we're happy for this to happen when we buy them to cook, yet with a pet dog..these same people can get oddly on their 'high horse' on the subject, which I find quite ironic when they are so passive regarding the subject of the docking of tails by banding, and castration by banding, on lambs that are raised for human consumption.
It brings up the whole 'viewing animals in different stakes of important' issue, yet thats a WHOLE different debate

I think this is perhaps why working gundogs have a long dock compared to the cosmetic short dock of the showring. It's short enough to prevent most injuries but long enough to serve it's purpose in balance etc.

On the contrary. I think it's perfectly logical that the breeds which would benefit most from docking are the ones which mostly retain this practice.

Although I myself am against tail docking, I appreciate that some people are not and I do not wish for what I am about to say to be taken badly by anyone, it is purely my opinion.

Personally I am pleased that the ban has been put into place as I do feel that the docking of tails by breeders just to create 'the look' is unecessary. I do appreciate that some of these dogs may go on to work, but the breeders cannot know at the time of birth, what life shall await the puppies. I was recently (by recently i mean in the past year) looking into buying a rottie puppy. I contacted a few people and I had a few word of mouth recommendations. Anyway I contacted one person who's puppies were due any day. We had a nice conversation on the phone about various things and then at the end she informed me that the puppies would be docked and dew claws removed by the time they went to their new homes. When I asked why this was being done she simply replied 'they look better without their tails and the dew claws will only cause them problems' (I would go into the dew claws but that is a different subject so i will leave it for now ) I was quite upset by this reaction.
If the tail must be removed for medical reasons then I have no hang ups about this.

I hope nobody will be upset by this post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke
Luke: Yes, and now pardon this if it sounds cold but i'm stating the facts. I'm sure the fact the lambs had their tails banded at an age when they would probably feel it doesn't cross the mind of those who sit tucking into their lamb chops on a sunday!
With the exemption of some present company who I know are not meat eaters

LS: That'd be me then

Out of interest - why would they only feel it at a few days young and not older?



Please answer my question and point me in the direction of where I can find evidence of this?

Thanks.

Not quite sure how i have missworded my post..i did not mean they only feel the pain at a few days old at all:? I meant there is more of a chance of a lamb feeling pain from tail banding as they are done at an older age when the nerves are obviously more developed, than a few hours old puppy..where the pain would be minimal, if any-and there is plenty of evidence for AND [see i can be open minded!] against this claim all over the internet.

lambs are done within the same time limit dogs are, most of my mates are in farming so I have seen banding done on lambs and they dont seem to care much they have a quick look round wiggle there tail for a few seconds then go straight back to feeding on mum,





The lamb in the blue jumper still has his tail the band is in place, the other one modeling the stipes tail has just dropped they are totaly fine about the whole thing, not so sure they like the colour of the jumpers thought

No, I'm very sorry Luke I misworded my post - I meant why would they feel it when older - not younger as I asked. You've answered my question here anyway so thanks very much for that, I appreciate it. ;-)

Why are lambs tails banded to begin with? Our lambs and sheep in Mexico had full tails with no problems what so ever? Why can't we just leave animals as nature intended?

I could be wrong but I think lambs tails are banded here because of the potential probelm of fly strike??
I am also anti that and whilst I am tempted to have a little rant, I'm going to be good cos it's my birthday!!!!! My pressie to you all...I shall shut up!!!! (But i'll be back tomorrow...ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!)

the reason for banding is mostly due to fly strike, I dont know what kinda flys you have in Mexico, but some hear we have blue bottles and the like, when the lambs poo the waggle there tails like mad, the poo cakes up under the tail really quickly, blue bottle comes along and lays eggs in the poo on tail, maggots then hatch, burry into the anus and kill the lamb over time, barbed wire has a big part to play also, many farmers have wire fencing now, they simply get the tail caught they tend to struggle violently for some time and normaly become exausted, get stuck in a silly possition upside down which makes there tummy fill with air/gas which kills them very quickly, a guess a bit like bloat, hth

Hi Patch,
I think the biggest problem with this is, location,
it's fine if farmers keep sheep in little square fields and can inspect them a couple of times a week,
the reality is many farmers live in areas like the highlands where sheep are turned out onto the hill, my friend's dad in Acahracle(sp) turns his sheep out after lambing when the weather gets a bit better onto cliff, the hill /cliff / its thousands of acres, he goes up once every couple of weeks to check on them but he never gets to see them all at one time, there is no way a little fly killer box will help him, for those who can use it and can afford to buy the gear, they still sell sheep at the market, if a farmer from the highlands buys his sheep they will most likely die on the hill of strike, so farmer will not buy them and the wee guy cant sell his sheep,
I dont believe for a min farmers do anything thats not needed. they are to busy they simply would not waste the time doing it if it wasnt essential, remember its not done in sheep for the look, hth​

Actually hill sheep AREN'T docked! It's mainly lowland sheep where the diet of grass is richer causing looser stools!
Becky

Are you sure? They are certainly docked where I live (Howgill Fells) ... constantly stumbling across their tails and the little orange rings they use to tie them off .

I know violets dads are docked and all the farmers for miles around are docked, cant say for sure what they do in england, thanks matilda, we know they dock them in yorkshire too now ;-)

It seems to depend on the breed of hill sheep round here. Swaledales aren't generally docked, all others are? Not sure why mind, perhaps their ability to cope with their diet better???? :?

strange they do the others and not the swaledales, I will try to find out why, must be a reason for it, thanks ripsnorterthe2nd

It seems to me the same argument as for dogs, some breeds are and some breeds aren't which makes no logical sense.
Becky