pit bull type? BSL

That is the ONLY sensible solution to this whole mess. But the problem comes in how to police the idiots that should never be allowed dogs in the first place.

if people had to have a lisence to own dogs it would solve a lot of problems

i personally think this should happen - then there would be no need for more breeds to be banned

im sure i read somewhere about rottweilers are supposed to be getting banned?? (im probably mistaken about that though)

You are mistaken Suze.At the moment there is no plans to add to the DDA list,there are however idiots out there calling for certain breeds to be added.The list is huge in other EU countries but in Britain it is still only the four breeds and any other dog that they see as type.Which imo is so wrong.

Very true, people will believe what they want to believe,
the media take isolated cases and then blow it all out of proportion increasing peoples fears.

Of course the media blow it all out of proportion it sells papers
People will tell you they don't believe the rubbish they write but unfortunatly alot do and judge without knowing the true facts.

Suze what makes you think dog liciensing will work,it didn't work first time around.There will always be irresponsible morons who slip through the net.

Im sorry suze but i think your whole attitude towards this stinks. I hope for your sake they never try to put collies on the DDA

Suze, your attitude towards all of this is a little naive in my opinion, and very short sighted. I would like to think I am an open minded person, and although I doubt it very much, if somebody put up an argument that convinced me that their opinion is the correct one approving of BSL, I may believe them. Your argument is, "its just my opinion, its in them" (I'm about to be sarcastic). Well suze, you've done it for me, very convincing ban the lot of em. The prosecution calls expert witness suze to the stand, are pit bulls dangerous and why? "cuz its just my opinion, its in them". GUILTY, CASE CLOSED.

I'm urgin you, back it up, give me something to make me believe you.

If you want my opinion, you have a thing against bull or guarding breeds, fed by (I dont know for sure) a previous experience maybe, hype from the media, pictures of snarling guard or bull breed dogs in the papers. You have no concrete reason for your opinion, yet you air it on a forum which encourages debate, then dont explain your reasons.

kristian, I don't see it as very constructive to an argument to throw insults. It certainly doesn't help to change anyone's mind, if that is your main intention.

I see you think that somewhere in kristian's post there is a insult, but I can't see where you have made any contribution to this debate, it seems to me that kristian's intention is to dabate BSL, what is yours?

To be honest I cant really see an insult of any form in what Kristian posted. Unless you're referring to the smileys, one of which is bashing the other over the head. I dont think they're meant to be taken literally pod.

I do understand Kristian's frustration over the suze's posts.

Pod, you think that Pitbulls and the likes, are chosen for fighting and terrorising the neighbourhood. They're the best at it.
what a strange comment you made on another thread, now I can see what your intention is.

Hi Biff. No I wasn't taking the smiley literally but I must say it does add to the condescending tone of the post. What I find insulting is the implication that anyone not sharing the posters opinion is somehow less informed or stupid and in need of having their mind changed.

There are in fact lots of posts on Dogsey from posters sharing suze's views.

Well lets see them then, backed up with some reasons. The way it is coming across at the moment opens people's opinions up to interpretation. My interpretation is that (for some reason) suze is intimidated by the breeds that are banned, as such she feels the law is right in banning them. I would then argue that she should not allow her feelings towards a small number of aggressive mistreated irresponsibily owned examples of the breed affect her judgement of the breed as a whole. However, without her reasons, I may be completely wrong in my assumption.

In your post which SBT quoted, you have shown your opinion on the issue. Its clear that you also believe the hype and scaremongering that the media have created, you're a shinging example of the effect the media have had on the public perception of particular breeds.

Maybe Kristians's post came over to you in that way, I cannot argue with you on that, as I cannot dictate how a post makes you feel when you read it, however I think if you look past the frustration, the post is not really insulting and certainly suggestive in the way you make out (IMO).

pod what breeds of dogs do you own please? Is it a spitz type dog?
Suze have you ever met an american pitbull terrier? A real one, not a cross bred one that chavs have decided to pick up and use these dogs as weapons, because american pitbull terriers can be dangerous of course, just like any other breed can be dangerous. personally after being bitten by a collie I wouldnt trust a collie with my child over a stafford to be honest, nor would i choose a collie to have in my house when i have children, because i have met many who bite and shouldnt be kept as pets! American Pit Bull Terriers, Staffordshire Bull Terriers where bred for fighting but also bred for their fantastic temperament with humans, but more so outstanding with children! This is not a fairy tale, nor is it a lie suze, its fact and truth! Im sure on here if you ask what breed has bitten you many times collies would be on the list, not because they are dangerous dogs, but because they are working dogs and where never bred for the love of humans and many people will go and get a collie without understanding their brains and instinct to herd need to be worked!

So please understand Suze and Pod, Bull Breeds are more reliable with humans than a Collie or some other breeds! tested, proved and fact!

The only time they bite children is because of silly owners who have taken from the likes of your views and think Yeah got myself a hard mean human aggressive animal here, because everyone is saying so (media peoples ignorant views), then mis treat them, do not grow them up properly and leave children alone with a dog (first of all any dog owner of any breed who leaves their children alone with any dog is foolish) then the dog could bite because its the owners and parents fault, not the dog!

Its about time people really researched their breeds that they own!

BSL and DDA have done nothing but give these chavs and hard men along with people like Suze and Pod views on these dogs a bad image and resulted in nothing but trouble! Poor dogs!

Should every person own a Pit bull? No because they are not a first time pet because of their dog aggression and strong will, but do not assume that dog aggression goes hand in hand with human aggression because, the pitbull and stafford are living proof of 2 breeds bred to fight but are fantastic with humans! They may try and attack other dogs and its your job to control that and be a good dog owner and not allow the dog to attack other dogs!
Should every person own a collie, No because they should be worked (be agility or sheep trials)and not every collie owner does this
Should every person own a beagle, fox hound, patterdale terrier, no because these dogs need to have their instincts either worked, understood or and controlled!

Hi Hayley. I have followed your posts on Dogsey on this subject and I must say I have admiration for your honesty and dedication to your breeds. Whilst I don’t agree (though I do understand and respect) with your view that the fighting instinct in breeds bred originally for fighting should be preserved, I do agree that it should be recognised and respected.

Yes I have met some Pitbulls and many Staffies and I have experience of caring for them in boarding but I certainly don’t consider myself an expert in these breeds but I do know a little about heredity.

Breeds that have been selected for fighting have characteristics bred in that make them good at their job ie they have stoicism, high pain threshold, non recognition and display of the submission reflex along with size and musculature suitable for the job. All of these traits are heritable but of course no two dogs are genetically identical, so there will be variation within the breeds.... some will be better than others.

Other breeds have these traits too but without specific selection for them, they will not have them to the same extent as the fighting breeds. But one trait that the fighting breeds have, that there has also been strong selection for, is lack of aggression towards humans. This is essential for work in the pit. A dog that attacked its owner would be too dangerous.

There is one report (USA) that indicates Pitbulls to be less likely to show aggression to humans than some other breeds and I can well believe that. The guarding breeds are bred specifically for this whereas Pitbulls are not. Behaviour isn’t of course entirely hereditary, and there will be some dogs of the fighting breeds that do have aggressive tendencies towards humans and this is where the problem lies with human attacks. It’s when these fighting qualities intended for the pit, are transferred to humans that severe attacks occur.

And yes, any dog can be potentially dangerous. There will be the odd occurrence of severe aggression in just about any breed but generally the most severe attacks (on humans and dogs) occur in the breeds where there has been selection for fighting in the ancestry.

Another point where I agree with you Hayley is that these breeds are not suitable for everyone. All too often I’ve heard the story of a novice owner with a Staffy and another dog. Everything goes fine when the Staffy is young but the owner comes home one day to find the other dog dead or seriously injured in a fight. The instinct to fight to the death is held at bay until the first fight situation occurs.

I know there has been some change in the temperament of Staffies over the last few decades, possibly down to pet breeders selecting softer dogs and I certainly don’t want to give the impression that every one of them is a time bomb waiting to explode. I do though think that owners have a duty to be aware of their dogs’ heritage.

yes minihaha will go and look for the link for you where they tested many breeds of dogs! Give me a bit of time and will find it for you! hope you are well!

To be honest pod, this is a well thought out post and i have to agree with most parts of it, you last line where you say that ''I do though think that owners have a duty to be aware of their dogs heritage'' is so correct it hurts lol! because If i ever breed Staffordshire bull terriers, i would not give them to just anybody, I would check their homes and ask what other dogs they have, I would not place a bitch stafford in to house where there is another bitch stafford or bitch molosser if you catch my drift! The same goes with my Male! I would Place a bitch in a home where the is a male! and the other way around! but not the same sex
Then i would ask why they want staffords? then i would think with the answer they gave me weather that i would place a pup with them! I would also ask what exp they have and i would then tell the owner the facts about staffords, good and bad and i would warn them that these dogs can be dog aggressive due to the reason they where bred to fight its an instinct! I would also say that human aggression is not apart of the stafford, and if this was to happen then contact me straight away (god forbid) and i would be there every single step of the way and decided what happens for the pup! When ever needed ill be there through good and bad because I couldnt live with the fact that i gave a pup to someone who didnt care or wanted them for a reason other than to love and look after them they way a stafford should be!

I believe this is where the problems lie, from the breeders who just breed guard dogs over dogs bred for fighting and have to strong instincts that do not gel well together for a novice owner, i personally would never own A Mastiff x Bull Breed right now because im still learning and i wouldnt know where to begin with a dog like this because both instincts to guard and fight other dogs is a huge responability!
Breeders also do not vet homes enough or give out and support the owners through it when they give them to new owners!

I really think most of the problems we see today with cross bred pitbulls to mastiff, or staffords x pitbulls are the breeders fault and byb really need to be stopped producing dogs that they dont care about and giving them away to people who will exploit these instincts,!

I do understand where you are coming from, far more than suze does, but the DDA and BSL is not the answer we need to rain down very hard on BYB, how im not sure but its about time we all see that the dogs are not the problem!

Sorry, I missed this bit. I've owned - Bernese, Akitas, GSDs, Finnish Lapphunds and a Bearded Collie. At present, just 3 FLs

Excellent reading!
And i agree with alot of what you said.

You said: All too often I’ve heard the story of a novice owner with a Staffy and another dog. Everything goes fine when the Staffy is young but the owner comes home one day to find the other dog dead or seriously injured in a fight. The instinct to fight to the death is held at bay until the first fight situation occurs.

This why you should NEVER leave them unattended at all,but this again can apply to all breeds.All it takes is one bite in the right place.
It sounds cruel but i make sure all of mine are seperated if we go out and at bedtime.We always supervise when they are loose together whether it be in the house or garden.