Czechoslovakian Wolfdog Discussions

Would make an interesting experiment, to see which is the more inteligent, pig or csv.

Hartl and his team were responsible for military dogs training projects. Together with East German trainers they were working on a new, improved scheme, which was based on matching training sessions with the dogs' daily natural activity. At some point Mr Hartl came accross Stephanitz' notes stating that crosses significatly improved the GSDs. Inspired by this information Hartl followed that path, though at the beginning had no intention to create a new breed. The only purpose was to improve the GSD so that they would be healthier and had more stamina.

That's what I've heard from people who talked to Colonel Hartl personally. I have no tangible proof, nor can provide any written source of this information, but if anybody has doubts, they can always contact Mr Hartl and check if this is true or not.

It would CSVs are sometimes... too intelligent. But I doubt if a pig was able to run like this:

i agree !! far too intelligent!!;-) ;-)
lovely pic,gorgeous eyes!

Lovelydog. Have to agree, a pig couldn't match a csv in speed, though they are quite fast. However, I doubt if the csv could match the pig in bite force, as a pig can break bones.

Would rather be attacked by a csv, than a pig.

i wouldnt say that tazer,have you had the pleasure of a csv's 'bite force'? ;-) ;-) ;-)
mind you i do agree with you anyway!!i had the horror of being charged by my friends pigs and boar!!!

Are you sure?

This was the same idea that Leendert Saarloos had in 1928. I think the relative good health of these breeds may be a testament to this concept as both have relative good health compared to the base breed.

Does Mr Hartl speak english? I would be very interested to contact him. The club was less than helpful when I tried to get historical information about the development of this breed.

I would take my chances with the pig on balance!

looks like a big softie to me!

Yep, that is another good one xxxxx I have a book of the best of his speeches. Haven't read it but perhaps I shall now you have triggered something xxxxx

Ref the dogs, they are all lovely looking but I especially like that pic from Rona xxxxx

Ref the GSD, we had a thread on here about there being wolf content in the GSD and some people were outraged at the suggestion. I am guessing there is some wolf somewhere and that what you say is right.

As far as I know he does and still sometimes attends some major CSV events - club shows, training camps and so called CSV bonitations where the dogs are assessed and recieve a "code" re their congruence with the standard.

There is a very good CSV site with database and current info about the CSV events and breeders, not to mention 11 languages forums, which I cannot provide a link to, but which everyone can easily find on-line. There is a lot of information about the breed history, also in some past forum threads.

Thank you

This way of reasoning always makes me laugh since all dogs come from wolves and the genetic difference between the dog and the wolf is less than 1% - otherwise they could not be matched.

Yep definately.

http://www.dogsey.com/showthread.php?t=93163&highlight=german shepherd wolf content

ps I guess I should of said 'recent' wolf content

My thought is that people more often than not believe only what they want to. When faced with the overwhelming evidence (i.e. Schafferhund studbook) that wolves were bred into the GSD pre-war-some people become defensive. Either because they are protective of their breed or they just arent keen on the whole idea.

Clearly GSDs do not behave, on the whole, like high content wolfdogs/wolves today. Chimpanzeez share over 09pcent of their DNA with homo-sapiens however there are obviously rather large differences. These differences are less pronounced in some of my friends

err sorry misprint that was chimpanzees share over 98pcent of their DNA......

It depends what you understand under the term "recent" It seems to me some people suffer from the Little Read Riding Hood syndrome.;-)

Well, wolves are wild, bloody beasts only in fairy tales . In nature they are beautiful, smart, loyal pack animals, with very complicated social organization, they hunt only when hungry and keep as far away from humans as possilbe.

On the contrary, according to the breed standard shyness is considered a major fault in CSVs (though it's quite common in Saarloses). CSVs should be: "lively, active, tough, obedient with quick reactions, fearless and courageous. Shows tremendous loyalty towards his master. Resistant to weather conditions. Versatile in his uses."

True. Each breed is a unique result of hard work and efforts of generations of breeders, and that's why in my opinion it should be protected. That's why it is incorrect to consciously mix any breed with wolves or other breeds. But such things happened in the past and happen now. We may criticize it, but pretending they don't happen, won't change the facts...

Last year, on the CSV forum people were dicussing the wolf gene content in CSVs. At some point sombody asked - "are you guys aware that we're talking about 0,1- 0,2% or less genetic difference between a GSD and a CSV?" But this 0,1% percent makes CSV a different breed from the GDS. People who own a GSD and a CSV confirm that and so do the trainers who train both breeds. CSV are neither wolves - they live with people in apartments like dogs of other breeds, though they probably bark less. To tell you the truth my CSV girl is much more obedient, friendly and predictable than my friend's beagle :twisted:

I know what you mean

The genetic difference between homo sapiens and a chimpanzee is 2% - that is far more than the .2% difference between wolf and dog.

To all intents and purposes, our doggies and tame wolfies ! They were reclassified by the Smithsonian Institute back in the 90's to be Canis Lupus Familaris. Wolves are of course Canis Lupus.

I thought the wolves that Von Stephanitz used from Berlin Zoo were timber wolves, not Carpathian? The Czech Wolfdog is of course a Carpathian Wolf/GSD cross, but I thought from Hektor's mum (from Berlin Zoo) was a timber wolf. Correct me if I'm wrong someone, please !