Czechoslovakian Wolfdog Discussions

Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs

Hello,

I am from Germany (so please excuse my language mistakes), am a Veterinary surgeon and behaviourist and own 5 Czechoslowakian Wolfdogs (and know some hundred).
Czechoslowakian Wolfdogs have been pure bred as a breed than over twenty years and undergone a extremly hard selection, especially for charakter, in the beginning being used as working dogs in the Czechoslowakian army. They are a registered FCI breed, registered in Group 1 the working dog class. There are dogs working as therapy dogs, rescue dogs, guardian dogs, companion dogs, sport dogs and and and.
Knowing wolfes quite well and being stricly against hybrids I can tell you that Czechoslowakian (and Saarloos) Wolfdogs aren´t hybrids in the normal point of view. Nobody in the Wolfdog world understands the English point of view on them. They are about as difficult to handel as a Rottweiler.
The reason why they have kept the wolfish look was to avoid health problems, not to have tame house wolfs. As I wrote before they have been working dogs in the army.
For the wolf content of around 30%: We will never get a lower percentage as long as we keep them pure bred. It is a mathematical formula nothing else. If you cross two animals with a percentage of 30% you will get offspring with 30%, it says nothing about how high the wolfcontent actually is in the dog. With no new wolf crossed in since 22 years and a very hard selection for a non-wolf-charakter it doesn´t reflect reality.


On the other side, I am not sure if the ban in your country isn´t good for the breed. They have a big fascination for some people for the wrong reasons and being kept as show dogs or to impress the neighbours is something that hasn´t worked out well for any breed I know of. The chance for them to get into the wrong hands is quite high as soon as the new owner hasn´t got direkt informations or the possibility to visit breeders and owners and get himself an impression how the dogs really are. But for me it is really not understandable why I can´t visit your country with my quite well trained dogs or can´t show them at Crufts.

Ina

Hello everyone,

I'm living in the Netherlands and have a Czechoslovakian Wolfdog too. My English isn't very good, but I will try to explain why the C. Wolfdog isn't a dangerous dog.
Why should a wolf be dangerous? He act just like other dogs. People makes dogs (animals) dangerous, with its own behaviour. I have a dog, which is very shy of people and wants only flee away from them. This type of behaviour is more a Saarloos Wolfdog one. They ran away for people and objects that makes them fearful. My dog has never been aggresive to people, because of his anxious behaviour.
When it is safe (in his eyes), he behaves like a normal dog.
Ok, it's not a dog for a firstdogowner. But that's not because of his bite.
The wolf is a very shy animal in the wilderness and don't want to fight. Why should he? Injuries in the nature leads to the death.

The Czechoslovakian Wolfdog is a special dog, but NOT a dangerous one. Anyway, there are no dangerous dogs. Dangerous dogs are made by man.

I gladly want to visit Great Britain and walk with my Czechoslovakian Wolfdog through the beautiful nature!

Greetings, Jolanda

Welcome Igor,ina and nanoekie.
Your dogs, I'm sure are wonderful creatures and are well looked after and well behaved, I have no doubt about that.
I am still concerned that the last wolf used was used in breeding 22 years ago, my basic maths tells me that the wolf content could still be quite high. I'm afraid your posts have not allayed my fears about the breed being introduced here at all. My fears remain, in the wrong hands, as with any dog, they could have problems. They will appeal to 'the wrong hands' for sure. I don't think it's fair on the dog. I also still would want to know the EXACT wolf content in the breed.Dogs have been domesticated over 100's of years and we are talking about a cross with a wild animal 22 years ago.
I am also a little surprised at just how quickly news of this thread has spread, 3 new members posting for the first time seems quite a high number to me. Sorry.
Don't want to offend anyone at all, just expressing my opinions. I'm sure in the RIGHT hands, with people with the RIGHT breed knowledge these dogs are well behaved, they are certainly beautiful.

Hello, a new member here, too. And another one to defend out wonderfull breed. My name is Mirka and I am from Czech Republic, country of origin of the breed Czechoslovakian wolfdog. And a proud owner of two wonderfull Czechoslovakian wolfdog females.

I absolutelly agree with all that Ina said. To add anything to that, I´d only repeat what was said.

The breed was officially recognised by FCI in 1981, but years before the crossings were made. In fact, the breed exists for more than 45 years. The wolf-blood content is very hard to say, because no wolf was added to the breed for years. And frankly, I do not find it important at all.

It is not the wolf-blood content, that makes the character of the breed or of individual dog. It is only the breeder and the owner, who shape the character of the dog. It is the way they socialise the pups, train and educate the dogs.

In wrong hands, every dog goes wrong. To think, that in wrong hands, wolfdog goes worse, is silly. I would bet, that if the breed was called Czechoslovakian shepherd, this thread would not ever get so far.

My wolfdogs were attacked by these breeds: Golden Retriever, Siberian Husky, Malinois, Bichon and Staffordshire Terrier. Should I cry that these breeds are dangerous?

Wolf is beautiful creature, social, playfull, fair and wild. Wolf is not aggressive and dangerous beast, only silly people think so. Reading something else than Little Red Ridding Hood would help greatly.

We offer to anyone to come and visit us anytime and see for themselves, what kind of dog is CSW.

On the photo are our and friends very dangerous wolfdogs on a visit of a ZOO.;-)

I don't think there is a conspiracy Alisha - we prob just got mentioned on one of their forums... thats what normally happens when you get new members go straight to one thread

Regarding these dogs, I think many people are concerned because they feel they may be more dangerous than normal dogs, purely because they have 'wild' blood in them. And they feel that once that get's 'out' they may end up in the wrong hands (as what happens to many other breeds).

From a legal standpoint, as far as I know in the UK, a wild animals licence would be needed for any animal with more than 5% wild blood - but I'm not entirely sure on that figure so you'd need to look it up.

The reason I know this because I own a Bengal cat which also was created using wild blood (of the Asian Leopard Cat). Although there is a massive difference in size, similar principles apply with regards to the law. With Bengal cats it's not until at least 4 generations away from any wild blood that they are considered a Bengal. All others are known as foundation stock.

I can't remember the specifics now as it's been so long but I think the first foundation mating is a ALC X a domestic cat
f2 is then the offspring of that x a domestic cat, f3 is then the offspring of an f2 breeding x a domestic cat and f4 is the offspring of the f3 mating x a domestic cat. This goes on and most Bengals today are at least f10 or further, and I think their wild blood is less than 0.02%. My figures might be completely wrong here mind so its worth researching it if it interests you. What this shows is that the resulting wild blood in the 'Pet' Bengals is actually very very small (and so does not require a Wild Animals Licence).

I guess people would be interested in how this differs to your own Breed? They are certainly beautiful animals (especially those two on the right in the pic above :smt049 ) but people will naturally be apprehensive about wild blood content in any pet, purely from the safety aspect.

Remember, as ambassadors of your breed, it is your responsibility to do what you can to allay peoples fears - don't take them as insults, but just for what they are, genuine concern.

Thanks for clearing that up Azz, having been on threads where new members appeared I was a tad concerned!!! ;-)

My intention is NOT to criticise individual members OR a particular breed of dog, not my style at all.

I am concerned about nobody being able to say exactly what the wild blood content is as I feel that if accurate breeding records were kept, (which I also feel they should have been when breeding from wild animals) then it should be possible to say exactly what the wild blood content is shouldn't it? I'm perhaps being a little naive, but surely good breeding records are vital in a situation like this?

My concern is for the welfare of the animals totally. I have to say, in all honesty, I am uncomfortable with the idea of x breeding wolves to make a family pet...we've done that already and got...well, dogs.... I still feel, very strongly, that the wrong sort of people will be attracted to this breed and the breeding will become a problem. This will happen if they are introduced here.

I haven't suggested for a moment that a wolfdog will become worse than another breed if it is poorly handled or trained, I don't know. I don't know if it is or more or less likely than other breeds to show aggression if cornered and it cannot flee. I don't know. As I say, my concern, the concern I have expressed, is for the welfare of the dogs AND I also (and am being totally honest and upfront) have issues about the ethics of x breeding from a wild animal.

I'm sure the dogs are lovely and have commented on their beauty. My overriding concern is for their welfare. I have seen how many dogs, of certain breeds are treated, I have seen how they turn out. I would not wish that on these dogs.

Mirkawolf, welcome to Dogsey.
The dogs are beautiful.
Noone on here has said that the dogs are aggressive or dangerous.
The thread was started because of an article in a magazine about wolfdogs, which I read...(as did others on here)

Have to say I've really enjoyed this thread, learning about these breeds and seeing the lovely pictures! :smt049

Hopefully one day, responsible owners in the UK will be able to enjoy this breed too.

Hi Rip.
Sorry Rip...how do you make sure it's just responsible owners??? If it was just responsible owners that could have them then great...let them in and I'll have one!!! Sadly,there is absolutely no way of ensuring that at all and we all know what could happen to this beautiful breed in the wrong hands.
My question is, is it worth it?
For a few responsible owners to have these dogs, is it worth the living hell the rest of them could go through??????

Thanks guys for coming on and talking about your beautiful dogs. I went walking with wolves with an organisation that works with them and has ambassador wolves and felt utterly privileged to do so (I even got to stroke one and that wolf was absolutely lovely - when she looked at me my heart leapt) and I would feel privileged to to be able to have a wolfdog too - if only! I absolutely agree that wolves are fair - I think they are wonderful, amazing animals.

I don't have the concerns or worries that some have about wolfdogs at all BUT I do know that in this country there are some that would consider it 'macho' and 'hard' to walk around with a wolfdog - wrongly I agree but I think education is the key else it is the animals that suffer when the owners can't cope, get fed up with them or if they don't live up to the tough image expected of them. Something similar has happened in the US I believe, where wolf hybrids have ended up chained up outside because people don't know how to look after them and have acquired them for all the wrong reasons and there are rescue centres set up purely for them.

It's brilliant to hear from you, as owners, and I hope you will continue to post and tell us all about your wonderful dogs. I'm looking forward to hearing more ...

Oh good grief all I wanted to do was say how much I'm enjoying learning about these breeds. :-(

The reason I put "responsible" owners was to reiterate that not all people that like wolf type breeds are hard core nutters.

I really have no idea how it would be controlled, I'm sure those that own the breed will have a better idea of that than me. But the word wolf seems to have upset some a great deal when my understanding is that wolf hasn't been introduced for some time? The wolf content would be purely mathematical as I understand someone else has already stated here?

At the end of the day these dogs may well be more difficult to own than many domestic breeds of dog, but just as challenging as some others. Just because they had wolf in them decades ago doesn't mean they'll turn in to rabid demons at the flick of a switch.

Rip, I wasn't having a go at you, just asking a question.:-(

I've not suggested for one moment that these dogs will turn into rabid monsters. I'm concerned for their welfare, that's all.( I am not saying that no one else is concerened for their welfare, I am saying that my worry is their welfare when they are in the wrong hands.)
At no point have I questioned the temperament of these dogs.
People seem awfully tetchy about this.

I guess this is a bit like some other breeds - some people think it's hard to walk around with a well-muscled dog on a heavy chain . Maybe we need to work on people's misconceptions about wolves ("murderous killers, aggressive" etc. ) which is what these wolf societies try to do by taking their wolves to fun days, that kind of thing and educate the public. When people stop seeing the wolf as an evil killer and learn to appreciate their intelligence and sensitivity they may come to understand wolfdogs better?

I've just read through this thread again to double check my posts.
I can see why people have thought I think they may be dangerous, but I don't and at no point have I said that they could be or are.:-(
I have said they will fall into the wrong hands.
Any dog, in the wrong hands, can be dangerous.
These dogs,even just because of their name, will be attractive to the wrong type of person. There is no denying that. They will be subjected to cruelty, they will be trained the wrong way and to do the wrong things. They will be badly bred in side streets.
Those things are my concern. Tap all to do with the wolf in them (thats a different ethical concern for me).
Is it morally right to introduce a breed into this country when everyone of us knows what will happen to it?
Aren't there already enough cruelty cases here and dogs in rescue????? That's my main point. Nothing to do with wolves or the temprament of wolves or these dogs.

They are beautiful dogs.
I'm going to leave this thread now as I don't want to upset anyone else.

I said I was leaving the thread but missed your post on my read through LS, so I'll answer this one.
Education is the key to everything. I totally agree. Education is vital.
Getting the education to the right people though is tough and time consuming.
Sadly, I think it will take a long time. The prejudices against wolves are deep seated and are spread throughout our folk lore. Not sure it will ever be possible to toally erradicate the prejudice.:-(

I'm not upset Ailsa - I think I understand what you are saying - that because people don't understand the wolf (still have Little Red Riding Hood Mentality ) they will think it's cool and hard to own a wolfdog and when they find out the dogs aren't what they thought, they will mistreat the dog.

I agree that there are people out there like that which is why I think they need to understand the true nature of the wolf first. Having said that there will always be some that will be attracted to a 'different' type of dog for status and then get bored. But there are others (like me ) who wouldn't.

I'm inclined to agree with Ailsa on this one. The domestic dog has evolved from the wolf over many thousands of years and latest research on this indicates that the first stage of domestication was a very slow process and initiated by the wolf rather than man. The wolves most suited to tolerating the presence of humans would have been the ones to first take advantage of the easy pickings round the villages and these would have been the first ancestors of the domestic dog.

Thousands of years later the temperament of these would have changed enough to allow the wolf true domestication with the intervening selectional criteria being almost solely based on temperament. This is confirmed in the latest DNA research where the biggest genetical difference between dog and wolf is said to be in behavioural traits.

I too think these dogs are wonderful looking animals and agree that the natural phenotype of a wild animal is a very good starting point as far as health is concerned. Also it's commendable that some are doing well in training and other disciplines. I have not had the pleasure of meeting one but from what I have heard, the temperament is inclined to be nervous in some. I know this can occur in any breed and I’d like to hear from those of you who have experience, how they compare to other breeds in this respect.

Obviously there is going to be a wide range in temperament, as there is in all breeds but my concerns too, are that with so few generations in domestication, and without the ruthless culling of natural selection, some of these dogs will just not be suited to modern day living in human society.

Someone has commented earlier that a dogs temperament is shaped only be the breeder and owner and not by the parentage. If this were the case, then we would have no need of specific breeds for specialist disciplines. We could train our Siberian Huskies to herd sheep, our Basset Hounds to retrieve for the gun and out Labradors to do manwork. All dogs are different genetically and it has taken countless generations to breed these traits in.

That's fine, all I wanted to do was thank those with wolfdogs for posting excellent info on their animals.

It just seemed to me you were assuming these dogs would be agressive (which you've rectified ) and was getting slightly hung up about their wolf content, which is irelevant now I think.

I don't agree with breeding dogs with wolves and would prefer to go down the Ute/NI route personally, but someone's done it (many moons ago) and I just think looked after right these dogs could be wonderful.

Lets face it if it isn't wolfdogs being in the wrong hands it'd be some other poor breed. :-(

LS i know there are people and I know you are certainly one of them, that would treat these dogs with the respect any animal deserves. There are also plenty who won't and how can we agree to introduce a breed knowing exactly what will happen to it?
Yes attitudes to wolves need to be altered before these dogs are allowed in but I think that will take decades to be honest.:-(
Unlikely the ban on them is going to be lifted anyway... ;-)