Bubble Wrap?? General Chat

Won nothing, bought nothing.
I set off at 7.15 am and arrived home at 8.50 pm. I had hardly had a sit down all day. Tally wet her crate - her first Crufts and she wouldn't 'go' on sawdust. Fortunately I had a suspicion she wouldn't like to pee indoors so had put a puppy pad under her blanket.
The entry was 185 and the atmosphere was great. There was a good sprinkling of 'continentals', and a great moving Dutch dog took the Ticket for males. Beagle folk are generally grounded and good humoured.
I hardly sat down all day and decided to walk up from the station - to let Tally stretch her legs. I didn't factor in pulling my crate etc. on the truck, the number of kerbs, and Tally's urgency to reach home! When I got up this morning I had developed a right-angle bend! In short it was great, but it might have to be my last Crufts.

Don't know why I said blanket, it was a well padded rug - had to scrounge a poly-bag to get it home! Also don't know what happened to the font. Not reset by me.

Poor Tally! They should have anticipated little divas and created an outdoor pee area.

Sounds like a very busy and long day. You need to find a young beagle enthusiast to mentor and have them do all your pulling and lugging for you.

No walk for Tally today. She hasn't been awake long enough! She only woke up for her lunch and some food container licking.
The tiny font has reverted to normal size!
Strange things are happening on here.

Weird. When I came on before, all the fonts looked bigger. Now they are back to "normal" which is smaller for me.

Tired little Tally. That was a lot of work for a little beagle. Having to keep you on your toes like that.

Monday, Looney2 and I saw our longtime vet for the last time. I did ask her if she recommended any of the other vets specifically for Punx as she could develop issues later on due to her rough start in life. She did not feel that any one vet would be better for diagnostics. She did point out that the newest doctor is very soft, gentle, quiet, calm, etc and good for a scared little cat - so I will have Panther see her. Which means by August, we'll have met with each doctor. Then I can decide who will see who in the future.

Poor Looney2 had more bloodwork done. He has a heart murmur (for about 4 years now) and his proBNP numbers have steadily gone from normal to extremely high over those years. So, he is being scheduled to see a cardiologist in August to get an echo done. The most common cause of those high numbers is HCM (Hypertrophic cardiomyopathy). The other is RCM (Restrictive cardiomyopathy). They can both be treated by pills, but not the same pills so we have to determine WHICH is the issue before we can treat.

And underlying this is his leukemia diagnosis. He tested negative as a kitten, then positive a couple years back, and then negative the following year. So, is he or isn't he? Does this have any bearing on his heart issues? Is there something else going on messing with his results?

He looks and acts healthy. He plays with his sisters, running up and down the stairs. He isn't AS agile as they are, but he is a 17 pound cat versus the petite girls of 6-8 pounds. He eats and drinks without issues.

So, Tornado-dog is under the strict rule to LEAVE THE CAT ALONE and Looney2 gets his nightly cuddle time to reduce his stress.

In April, the dogs go in for their annuals. Aunt C is coming along to keep Tornado-dog occupied while Cat-dog gets looked at. Cat-dog has fully embraced her obnoxious self and has eliminated all signs of her aversive training past. I'm very proud of her. The prosac has helped with that more so than with the dog fear. We'll discuss that with the new vet.

Then Looney1 goes in May. He had a heart murmur last time but never prior to that. I'm hoping it was just a fluke. Otherwise he is in excellent shape and has no ongoing issues. Hoping that stays the same.

Punx is being bratty again. The other morning she actually got on the bed while I was in it and was rolling around and enjoying herself. I did not attempt to touch her as I know it would piss her off. Since then, she has been hiding from me on and off. So, the next time I can touch her, I am going to hold and cuddle her! I may even tickle her tummy (she really hates that).

Interesting that you think Prozac helped Cat-dog. My friend has been having a series of visits from a behaviourist for her dog reactive Beagle. He is difficult to exercise as he will start a vocal tantrum as soon as he spots a dog on the horizon. Once he comes to know a dog he is relaxed and playful, so we are sure that his reactivity is anxiety based. I suggested that his owner asked her vet for a short course of Prozac or similar, but her vet just refused point blank. She is a smart, responsible, mature lady so not due to a character assessment. She has used herbal calmers and thinks they help a little, but not a great deal.
Good luck with all your vet visits, sounds as if you are in for an expensive time. I hope all proves to be as well as possible.

You saying that @CaroleC my sons dog has done the same thing, she’s 10 months old now and she barks and pulls at other dogs, she’s a nightmare for my daughter in law but my son it’s a different matter, if she lets her off the lead she will run straight to another dog and pin them to the floor and bullies them. I baby sat the other weekend and she never left me alone, in my face biting my hands and generally just being a brat. I ended up putting her in the kitchen on time out, she complained and I ignored it, but as soon as she went quiet I let her back in, straight back to what she was doing before, even after I tried to ignore her.

@CaroleC I think the prosac has definitely helped with her general anxiety.

Her dog fear is extreme. Just walking outside would have her shaking in fear and looking to run and hide. She didn't need to see a dog, just knowing a dog COULD be out there was enough to freak her out completely.

She also had general anxieties. She was always worried that she would be punished. If we were hanging out in the living room and she got up to walk around, if I said anything to her or looked at her, she would rush back to her spot and lay down. She was always hesitant to get attention. She had obviously been trained using aversive methods, because her good behavior was based in fear. Nothing was fun for her. She was very well behaved, but lacked a personality.

Now, after several years on the prosac, that general anxiety is completely gone. She wanders around the house without worry. She doesn't rush to her dog bed when I say her name. She rushes TO me instead of hesitantly approaching. She has completely overcome that constant anxiety.

Her dog fear is still there. When we go out the front door, she still worries. But it's not as strong as it was. When the yard guy comes, she will say hello to him instead of looking for an open car door. But if she hears a local dog bark when she is out front, she will freak. And when we go places, she is as scared as ever.

So, my evaluation of the prosac is that it can't eliminate fear, but it can eliminate anxiety. In your friend's case, I think it would help her dog at this point. It would help the dog relax enough so she could work with her on the reactivity issue with training. If the reactivity grows into a full-fledged fear, then I think it will be too late.

I would suggest she try a different vet. At one point, I would have said prosac should be a last resort, but seeing how it has changed Cat-dog, I think it is something that is more than helpful for these issues. And it's not like it has to be a forever thing. In Cat-dog's case, I'll keep her on it because she's already 11 and her dog fear is still a major issue. But if it had just been about her general anxiety, I think we could wean her off now and she'd be fine.

I wish I had tried it with Bat-dog and her people-fear. Her fear wasn't as strong as Cat-dog's and I think it would have been very helpful for Bat-dog.

Yeah, the echo is about $700. That's part of why we're waiting until August (that the cardiologist is only at the office two days a month max is the other).

@Tone it sounds like the dog needs more redirection than separation. Instead of isolating her when she gets to be too much, try redirecting that energy to a toy or activity. If her behavior is due to anxiety, then isolating her when she acts out will just reinforce her anxiety. In contrast, if you redirect her energy away from biting at you and towards a toy or a game, she will get the attention she needs in an appropriate form.

As for the dog bullying, I'd try redirection too. Instead of just letting her offleash and letting her go harrass the other dogs, I'd work at giving her a game to play when outside. Start playing the game with her on leash as soon as you get out where the other dogs are. As she starts to anticipate the game and focuses on it as soon as you get out, then you can start releasing the leash (keep it on her so you can quickly catch her before she can bully another dog, but just let go of it when she focuses on you and the game) while you play. Choose a game that keeps her near you - rather than chasing after a ball, etc. Scent following would be a good choice as it gives her something definite to focus on.

I'm not a big fan of "ignore the dog". Most unwanted behaviors like biting, jumping, etc, are because the dog is overwhelmed or anxious. They need us to reassure them that everything is OK and to help them calm down and relax. Isolating them does the opposite. It doesn't ease their initial anxiety and adds a new layer of anxiety by taking away their support system (aka their person). By redirecting their behavior, we remain in contact with them thereby providing that reassurance and comfort, while we help them focus on something other than what they are finding overwhelming or stressful.

Believe me I tried the reassurance bit and even took treats with me, which I might add she was as good as gold while I was feeding her them, she sat and waited and I was doing a little bit of leave it in the floor then telling her she was a good girl so she knew to eat it, but as soon as she’d ate them all it was a dive on me and start biting again. I even tried to give her a nylon bone to bite that and that didn’t work either, she spat that out and started on me again. So I went and got more treats, good as gold again until they was all gone. My son said when it’s just those two together and he walks her you would think she had been military trained and she listens to everything he says, but the rest of us it like nah you’re not the boss here I am.

It's not just the reassurance, it's the redirection. You are telling her not to do a dog thing "biting in play" but you are not giving her an alternative behavior. So, while giving her treats stops her for as long as it takes to eat them, it doesn't tell her HOW to play appropriately. By redirecting her to a toy or game, you are teaching her how to appropriately burn her energy and interact with you.

Again, isolating her stops the biting, but doesn't provide the interaction she is needing. So the next time, she comes in harder with her bites to try to get you to understand - she wants to be with you and play with you. You need to show her how to do this without biting.

In my experience, nylabones are not very exciting for dogs. They don't squish, squeak, rattle, etc. It may be good for a dog who likes to chew on sticks or rocks, but doesn't offer anything to the dog who wants to play. Try a squeaky toy. And don't just give it to her and expect her to leave you alone - she wants to play WITH you. So use the toy to play a game.

Tornado-dog loves to play "try to get it". He sets the toy on my lap or right next to me but keeps his mouth right up against it. I'm supposed to try to grab it away. He loves this game and he loves beating me every time. Occasionally, I will beat him and then I toss the toy across the room. That's our signal for no more interactive play. He takes his toy and goes off to play by himself or nap. When he wants attention, he will grab a toy and bring it to me. Most times, he just sets it on my lap, but if he is feeling especially needy, he will shove it in my face. If I go out without him, as soon as I walk in the door, he is prancing around with a toy in his mouth because that's his cue that he needs my attention.

You have to be consistent. Every time she comes for attention and bites, grab the toy and redirect. And every time she redirects, no matter how short of time, give her tons of praise. The more you do this, the more she sees bringing you the toy as the start of interactive fun. She'll stop biting you because she has been taught a better way to interact.

Most likely she obeys your son because he presents a stronger more scary presence. Men have deeper voices and often display more assertive to aggressive behaviors. Women have higher voices and tend to have less assertive mannerisms (we tend to get low down when we interact with dogs, while men stay standing or just lean over the dog). The more assertive behavior isn't always better. It can scare a shy or uncertain dog. It does tend to get better results in the short term because the dog is worried about what will happen if they step out of line. Even if the person never uses aversive methods, their assertiveness can cause anxiety. Sort of like when you get stopped by the police - even though they haven't done or said anything, you know there is potential for a negative interaction so you get that sense of unease. In contrast, an unassertive stance can put the dog at ease. They know you won't hurt them or yell at them. So they feel confident to be themselves. Which is great! You just now have to teach her appropriate behavior when she interacts because fear or wariness won't keep her in check.

Beagle puppies do go through Brat phases - the reason why so many of them get rehomed. Your son's puppy will be teething at the moment I guess. This could be the reason for so much biting. I tend to redirect onto soft rope toys - some others use knotted kitchen towels, can be chilled in the freezer for inflamed gums.
If the biting gets out of control you could try turning to the wall and folding your arms. If she persists by pulling at your clothes, I would withdraw my attention by saying nothing and walking out of the room. The fun stops as soon as the game gets out of control.

Thank you both, I have never had a bitey kind of dog as these here haven’t ever done it, woody occupied buddy and buddy occupied beau, so they never did things like that to us, in fact non of the dogs I’ve had in the past have either, yes remotes and shoes and items but never hands and jumping in your face, so feel very privileged that I haven’t then. But thanks once again

Last night, after hiding again, I picked up and held Punx. It was terrible. I was a horrid parent. I explained that if she hides from me I have to pick her up to make sure she's healthy.

Today, she has been very social and outgoing. She REALLY hates being held.

@Tone I wonder whether the fact that Gundogs are bred to have soft mouths might be the difference. Beagles were bred to kill what they hunt rather than carry back to the handler, so might be less gentle in their formative years. Having said that, my Beagles have never done any damage, I remember that my Goldens were always chewing something - usually shoes!
Thought you might like this,

@CaroleC thank you lol that’s absolutely brilliant way of putting it and seeing that from a different perspective.

Yep. Always remember that puppies (and kittens) aren't being bad. They are just being puppies (and kittens).