Aggression General Chat

I have 5 dogs and they have all gotten along really well until Max my 7 month old turned 6 months. Max is fine and such a sweetie but my dog Joey randomally went after him one day. Max wasn’t doing anything but standing in the middle of the living room, Joey walked up, gave him a sniff and then went after him. Then after that once in a while Joey will do it again, and only Max. At first I though it was cause Max was maybe smelling different cause he isn’t neutered yet and from past experience I have noticed some dogs don’t like intact males. So I always keep a close eye on them. 95% of the time they are fine, they even play, sleep together, but Joey is still going after him randomally. Now I think it’s protectiveness, cause my roomie and I were on the couch, joy was by are feet and he started growling at any dog that came close, Max jumped on the couch and Joey just went after him. My question is how do I get this behavior to stop? Max never fights back just cries, I feel so bad. Joey is also starting to get protective over a new kitten we got and will growl at any dog that comes by. When he does this I say a firm no and use my body to move Joey back and lay down and it helped with that. But with Max is seems so out of the blue and usually Max isn’t doing anything.

Could be a lot of things, from Jealousy/resource guarding, ect: If the problem is not sorted it could escalate to something more serious, plus it is not fair that the youngster is being randomly attacked and as he gets older there is the possibility of him retaliating, or end up fear aggressive towards other dogs.
I wouldn’t leave toys/bones ect lying around that could start it off, and I would never leave them alone together.

I suggest you find yourself a good behaviorist/trainer, who should be able to Identifying specific triggers or situations in which problems might arise,

In the meantime as soon as you see first signals for trouble from Joey ie: growling or his body language, immediately separate him from the others and put him in time out for a few minutes.

Thanks your your reply!

After I posted this, later that evening my roommate came home and Joey and max ran over to her in the kitchen, they both love her. I heard her talking to them and then the next thing I know Joey attack’s Max again! AND Max finally fought back and actually had Joey pinned. I was having a hard time getting Joey pulled away while my roomie was grabbing max, got them separated and then my 7 year old who doesn’t have a mean bone in her body, went right after Joey scruffing him and pulling. I got them apart and quickly threw Joey in a crate cause that’s all I could do at the moment. I couldn’t even breath after that.

So I set up a crate with a pen attached for Joey. I’m going to be waking up extra early to make sure Joey can get a walk , he had hip surgery about two months ago and was on strict rest, it’s been sooo hot here I haven’t been able to walk him cause I was worried about paw burns. But I’ll be doing the 5am wake ups so everyone gets their exercise before it gets too hot.

I’ll be crating Joey in the morning before the roomie wakes up, when she gets back from work, and any other times there is potential excitement since this seems to be some of his triggers. I’ll also be leashing him to take him from the crate to the outside. I also told my roommate to not talk to the dogs, or give them any sort of attention when they are excited. The same rule will be for guests as well. I also put some dog pens around the couches, and making a no dog on the couches rule, this way they can’t gather by our feet and get jealous either, which Joey has done before.

I feel like with some diligence and work on my part and my roommates, I can get this worked out.

I wish you luck as once Interdog fighting starts it can be difficult to solve completely.

Thank you!
Starting today I’m taking them on two walks a day together, just the two of them. Hoping it helps build a better bond plus if they are both tired that has to help a little bit I hope. Here they are after our walk.

Did the infighting start before or after Joey had his surgery?

Joey would growl sometimes but Joey is also very vocal. The first really attack happened a couple weeks after his surgery. I did take him to the vet last week to rule out pain or sickness as a cause.

It got pretty bad the last five days, I’ve had to keep him in the pen and leash walk him outside. I called a trainer who is coming Friday to do an evaluation.

When did Joey have his operation?

He had his surgery about two months ago. The first serious attack happens 2-3 weeks after that. I just took him to the vet today to check his thyroid as well, just to rule it out. Vet says pain is an unlikely cause. I think he is resource guarding my roommate and I.

I decided today I am also going to have the trainer evaluate Max as well. He’s just a little “extra”, I think his training could use some fine tuning. So both boys might be going for training for a week or so.

Do you mean you will be sending them away for training, because if Joey is, in fact, resource guarding your roommate and you, I am not sure how it can be trained out of him when he is away from you.

According to this post Joey first attacked Max beginning of February when Max was just 3 months old ,so before Joey had his op.
https://www.forum.breedia.com/threads/my-dog-joey-went-after-max.18393/

I decided today I am also going to have the trainer evaluate Max as well. He’s just a little “extra”,
(Not sure what you mean by He’s just a little “extra?)

Personally I would never send any of my dogs away, training is part of the bonding experience.
I would be very careful about who I sent them to for several reasons. Sending them away might get temporarily result but who knows how? No one knows what those trainers do to your dog to get them to listen.

(I have seen dogs come back a shadow of themselves) others reverted back to they way they were as dogs will act differently with different people, you would still need to work with a trainer with your dog and I think you would end up with the same problem as you have now, they would listen to the trainer and not to you.

Should you decide to go ahead, do your research, just because someone claims they have done "x", does not mean it is true.

The trainer I have coming for the evaluation is someone I have met before through the animal hospital I worked at. My manager and a Vet there, both sent their puppies to him. I asked them how they felt about the trainer and the process.

Now I’m not sure for sure if he will want to take them or not. He will do evaluations and then give me options as to what we can do for training.

Joeys aggression while has a lot to do with resource guarding my roommate and I, but he also has some other issues that probably don’t help with the aggression, some other behavior changes as well.


I also have an appt with a different trainer for next week in case.

Thanks for all the advice. I would ideally not want them to leave me for training. I’m hoping there are options for them to stay, but I’d like for him to see what is going on, and get his opinion. The aggression is not ok, and at the rate it escalated scared me, I have 5 dogs. I have to get this under control.

Again thank you.

I don’t believe in sending dogs away for training, they may listen to the trainer and not you when they get back, plus you don’t know what the trainier is doing as you aren’t there. I don’t think aggression issues, or resource guarding, can be altered in one “Magic” week, its an ongoing long term process. Good luck

Margo, are you American? The stuff you're saying reminds me of how we do things here. Many trainers in my state do offer a "boot camp" for aggressive dogs... Here's some advice - if you are American, don't do it. I have heard of too many bad stories. It's as the other lady said, you cannot be sure how your dog is being treated at these places.

Oftentimes the behavior reverts because though the dogs will listen to the person who trained them, it doesn't always carry over to people who did not train them. My dog Nigredo will sit for strangers who are holding a treat, but he will not do any other commands for them.

Also keep in mind that veterinarians don't always have you and your dog's best interests at heart. I've run into several greedy and uncaring vets. I am not saying your vet is like this, I'm just saying to keep an eye open.

Research the trainer and company. Ask questions about how they train. They use stun/shock collars here in most boot camps. I don't like those and wouldn't want my dog trained with one. Just make sure you know how your animal will be treated before agreeing to anything.

Also for the lady who asked... The term "a little extra" is very common here. That's why I thought she was American. It generally means slightly over the top behavior. Like if someone is right in front of you and you're yelling to speak to them... you're being extra. If there is chewing gum stuck under a desk and you touch it by accident and and yell and run away... you're being extra. It is just a figure of speech.

Yes I am American. That is also what I meant by describing Max as “extra.” Besides that Max is also way to attached to me, causes him anxiety. He also doesn’t listen to my roommate and opened the garage door and ran down the street and wouldn’t come to her, she chased him around for 15 minutes before she could get him, luckily he didn’t get hit by a car. Today he almost busted through the garage with me too but he listened before he was all the way out and came back, however we were on our walk and two dogs being walked across the street were barking at him, his leash breaks! He ran down the street, wouldn’t listen to me and then ran up to the dog that was barking at him, when I approached he ran to the middle of the street and looked at me, I pretended to have a treat and said sit, thankfully he did and I got him. He’s so good like 50% of the time and that other 50% he is just all over the place. I’ve been practicing down stays with him, to teach him to just be calm, he was great yesterday but then today he is “extra” lol.

I need a professional to help me fine tune his training, he’s really smart, he just has this nervous energy sometimes.

I figured you were American. You may need a professional to help you... But the key there is HELP YOU. Sending the dog off doesn't help you. Someone familiar with dogs and that type of behavior needs to come and HELP YOU learn how to deal with it. You need to work with your own dog.

Gsd x Mal is more popular in sports like KNPV. There are also some used in police / military this type of breeding is mainly for work though they can be good pets with the right owner.

Point being they need a lot of exercise both mental and physical or they can get destructive and unruly, if they don’t have an outlet for excess energy.

I would advise you find a good sports club, and attend obedience classes with him.

And exercise is where my problem comes from. Max is only 7 months old, I need to be careful not to over walk him, as is I am pushing it. He usually gets a good hour walk, and I sometimes to light jogging ( not the whole time, just for a couple minutes at a time to get more energy out) if I could walk him longer or even run with him I know he would be much better.

I’ve tried teaching him fetch but he has no interest. Tried swimming and he is scared.
I love large breed dogs, I just hate the puppy stage when you have to be careful about too much exercise, cause these guys have sooo much energy, but what can you do if you can’t take long walks or runs?
I

I have 2 Akitas and they are notorious for not fetching, basically you throw it, you must not want it... It took me a year to teach my male to play fetch, with treats as a reward for bringing it back to me. Now he will drop it in my hand on command. My last Akita had no interest in this game, and it took a lot of patience to teach Bandit. He wanted me to chase him... my younger female watched how fetch was played and picked up on it immediately!!! Monkey see, monkey do ; -)

Its recommend to avoid long walks on hard surfaces, walking/free running on dirt tracks and grass is ok.

There is lots of games/training one can do indoors/outdoors, other than just walking,if you mix it up and do variety, this will give him mental exercise.

Break up walking with some short fun training sessions
Tug of war
Outside I hide ball/toy in long grass and tell them to find it.
Hide and seek, inside or outside
Hide go find’ indoors with treats.
Tracking
Flirt pole
Indoor/outdoor short training sessions.
He is not too young to go to training classes
As for not retrieving, you have to make it interesting and fun.