gun dog training....info needed! Working Dogs

morning all!

just wondered if anyone knows the best place to start looking for information re gundog training? i am not after using my springer as a working dog, but would like to maybe train him for field trials etc. i have tried looking on the net, but haven't really come up with anything useful! so if any of you do field trials, or know anything about how to start training your dog for field trials, or know of any societies or clubs that i can get in touch with that can help i would be very grateful! many thanks

Have pm'ed you with a couple of pieces of info

Sue

If you call Hilary Gould at the Kennel Club she will send you a list of Gundog Societies, they usually hold Summer training sessions. It may also be worth buying a copy of the Shooting Times out on a Thursday as in classified ads you will find private trainers who offer 1 2 1 tuition. Have a look also on ukgundogs on the web. If I were you I would approach a local shoot to see if you could work your dog on the shoot in the season to see if it's what you really want to do. It will give your dog invaluable experience and also make her steady.

Word of advice, the positive training methods havent moved in the gundog world that much yet, so if you choose a private trainer out of the Shooting Times, be very careful and ask about their training methods, a lot of trainers (not just ones in Shooting Times) use a lot of the 'kick n boot' style of training and they aren't pleasant places to be in when training your dog. I'm speaking from personal experience here.

If you do a bit of research www.apdt.co.uk (that'll give you a start) you can find a positive trainer if you area that will be able to guide you in the right direction, best of luck and I hope you have a lovely time training your dog !

If you need any extra help in finding a positive trainer, just pm me and I'll do my best to help you out

D,

Yes I agree that some trainers are very rough but I do think that she would be best off contacting the K.C for a list of gundog societies, that way she can find a local club that do summer training sessions and just watch the first couple to see if the training methods are suitable. I have trained both Ess's and Goldens and work both with picking up and beating during the season, this achieved with the help of my two local gundog clubs and a well respected judge and field trialler. You do need specialist help in this area not a general obedience trainer. Good luck with your training and future feild trialing.

thanks very much everyone for all your advice. i will contact the KC and get a list of local gundog clubs and take it from there. at the moment i am just starting out with beginners obedience (only because he hasn't had any basic training bless him), and agility (which he thoroughly enjoys!). i will let you know how we get on

Hi there

I agree that the world of gundog training hasnt really moved on but I have seen some improvement over the last couple of years. What I found very disappointing when I wanted to train my working cocker was the lack of good, positive gundog training books. Most of them are still the old school. I have heard that there is a new book which is gundog training with the clicker. Has anybody heard of it or know where I could get it?

Thanks a bunch

Annie

I'm pretty sure Willow has a copy so she might be able to give you an idea of where you can get it.

I've looked on the internet and the only places I can find are on US sites and they've sold out anyway!

Must be good! ;-)

Here's the link anyway just incase it's back in stock soon.

http://clickertraining.com/store/

Just type in "gundog".

Yup I most certainly have got a copy

I brought it about 3 months ago but have already put it in a safe place and cant find it

I brought it from http://www.learningaboutdogs.com/acatalog/Specialised_training.html they're an english company and I have brought a few other things from them as well before

The clicker gundog book is written for HPR's but you can easily apply certain parts of the book to either just retrieving or even possibley flushing or using your a spaniel. She goes into great detail with all the training exercises and I think it is a good book.

However both my trainer and I both did feel that you couldnt rely on this book only, and that even if you did read the book and do all the exercises in it, you wouldn't have a fully trained dog. That is just our opinions though. It's still worth buying it and it's a great read.

When I mentioned before about looking on the APDT website, I should have mentioned before about looking for not just any trainer, but one that does specialise in gundog training, that was my intention and sorry I didnt make that clearer before, there are a few APDT gundog trainers around, but you might have to do your homework. Good luck with the search and if you need any extra help I'm more than happy to help

Thanks very much willow for your reply. i have since been in touch with a gun-dog trainer who says that he really wouldnt be able to do anything with sam as he is too old now (he's 3 or 4), and will be set in his ways! so i'm at a loss now what to do! i'm still going to carry on with obedience and agility and see what comes up. thanks again....

Hi there

He is probably right about Sam's age but there is no reason why you can't be taught the basics so that you can fulfil a need in Sam that is instinctive - that is his need to retrieve. I do lots of training like this with my working cocker. I made all my mistakes with Jack but I know that he needs to use his brain and use his working instinct so we often go out into the middle of nowhere with the starting pistol and dummy and do a good bit training. He is positively laughing as he is retrieving the dummy. So it wouldn't be wrong to train him in the basics. You could then play games with him in the garden like hiding things and letting him find them and bring them back to you. He will absolutely love it!!!!

I wonder if anybody else finds this. No matter how far away I go from civilisation with me dogs to train them with the dummy and starting pistol, when I turn around there is always somebody walking their dog. Sometimes I just can't believe it!!!!

I am going to have a look on the site for the clicker training book. I am in the process of trying to transform one of my dog buddies - a real gundog man!!! I am going to set him a task. He has to read The Culture Clash while on holiday and if I get this book in time I may change it to this book. I'll get him round to my way of thinking yet!! ;-)

Kind regards
Annie

He probably is set in his ways, but there is no reason why you still cant teach him a few retrieves and things like that, I didnt start gundog work until Casper was 2.5 / 3 so I started very late for a retriever, but that sure as heck doesnt stop me competing and having fun whilst doing so. Most of the dogs I compete against are about 2 or 3 but I dont care, I'm there to have fun, I know I'll never have a top class fielding dog, but I dont want one, I just want to have a bit of fun with my doing what he was bred for !
Before I started doing gundog work, we did obediance (pet), working trials and agility. The obediance should in fact help you a bit actually.

I'd still go along and join in a nice class somewhere

Ooh I left Harpury College last summer after completing a 4yr degree programme (Vet Nursing). Nice location and very into the agriculture/equestrain side of things.

Forgot to mention as well that Helen has also started her own yahoo group, I'm probably not allowed to post the link to it on here so if you want it, just pm me

Hello there,
I think there have been some very important points raised in this discussion. First of all, everyone is quite correct, there are not many trainers who are into positive reinforcement or reward training. Most seasoned trainers have been using the same methods for years and years and are not prepared to change to the far better methods that are now recognised. Secondly, I am a gundog trainer and i must say that I will only use positive training methods, this allows the handler and the dog to have the maximum fun possible.No handlers are permitted to use any form of negative reinforcement methods as I believe them to be unfair and counter-productive.
Many of the handlers coming to my classes have said that they have found that when they have attended training sessions with societies, as complete novices, they were almost expected to have a dog ready to work and that actual training advice was not readily available. This, I have to say was exactly what I found, hence, I started classes for those who are complete novices and those who are advanced but require advice on improving.
Finally, a very good resource, if you wish to train your own dog, can be found on the UK Gundog website. Eric BEGBIE has written a series of training broadsheets, based on positive training methods which are excellent. They take you stage by stage along the training path.
Sorry for going on a bit and best of luck in your training
Mike

Hi Mike

Its great to hear that somebody is actually taking steps forward to promote positive training in the gundog world. I, for one, will be looking on the website you have recommended. I would like to start gundog training classes for the complete novice. There is absolutely nothing like that here where I live. I have recently bought the clicker gundog training book and think that it is quite good but I think that a step by step manual would be great for beginners.

Thank you so much for posting.

Kind regards
Annie

Hello there,
I have been training gundogs for a long time and also run a successful training club.
If you are looking for a website, can I suggest UK Gundogs. A really great site for details of clubs, societies etc and a good source for information. If you intend to train your dog yourself, I would recommend a series of training broadsheets written by Eric BEGBIE. They will take you through each section to bring your dog upto an exceptional standard.
The only other advice I can offer is make your training as fun-filled as possible, you will find that the dog will thoroughly enjoy it and you will find his progress so rewarding.
Best of luck
Mike

HI Mike

Thanks for the information. I have bought the broadsheets by Eric Begbie and am awaiting their arrival. I'm about to get my new Bracco puppy in 2 weeks. How late do you think is too late when it comes to gundog training? I would really like to train my Bracco, Ruby but haven't really had the time of late. However, her obedience and control is excellent and all achieved with positive training!! I am planning on showing my new dog but would also like to work her.

Thanks again.

Kind regards
Annie

I have started training my two as gun dogs, one is coming along nicely the other is being more stubborn (she likes to chase butterflys). anyway the basics are very important, sit, heel, recall etc BUT some of the stuff I was taught in puppy class has made the gun dog training tricky eg playing tuggy with the stubborn dog means the retrieves are not really happening as she wants to play tuggy with the dummies.

Go for an assessment with a trainer or go to watch a gun dog training session if you are not happy with the methods then don't return.

I don't use treats, clickers etc but my methods are positive. The reward is going for the retrieve of the dummy. If they don't do what I ask then I go an pick the dummy up and leave them in a sit stay. If they do something right they get heaped with praise and a big fuss. The most "punishment" my dogs get is a stern "NO" or "LEAVE IT" and that is enough for them.