Vicious dog? I don't think so.. Controversial

I don't think the dog's motivation is important. He was out of control, and his owner was so stupidly slow to react that she might as well not be there. The child may not have had any bite marks on her body, but it is only by luck that she didn't have damage to her skull, or spine. A friend of mine had a tiny JRT which was tugged in exactly this manner between two sibling GSD's. The GSDs owner did pay the vet bills, but my friend's JRT was almost killed - whether in play or not - and had to suffer the pain of recovery.
I am not saying that the dog in this video should be destroyed, but I do think that the owner needs to be sufficiently punished to make her realise that she needs to be more responsible for her dog's behaviour.

That dog was out of control & shouldn't of been dragging the baby around at all.
If that baby was any of my nephews or nieces, the dog would of been kicked in its head until he had let go, regardless of who owned the dog.
People forget just how powerful dogs are, I broke my arm playing tuggy with one of my previous dogs, (medium size mixbred dog)
That poor baby might not have any physical scarring (bite marks) but you can't possibly say that the baby don't have any emotional scarring.

I still firmly believe that this dog didn't injure anybody because he had no intentions of doing so. Its still absolutely unacceptable behavior and it COULD have resulted in injury. My only point was that this dog didn't seem vicious. I've seen many vicious dogs and not once has everyone walked away uninjured. Viciousness just doesn't work like that and I refuse to accept it otherwise. I disagree that the lack of injury was the pure luck, real attacks just don't work like that.

P.S
Had I seen that dog doing that to a child, best believe I'd smash that dogs teeth clean in until he let go because as said... it sure doesn't look like playing and even if it is, the child could have been badly hurt so I'm not saying that this is okay by ANY means, I'm only saying that I have seen vicious dogs attack, and someone always ends up (badly) bitten. I don't think this dog had true intent to harm. That's all.

Don't matter if anyone thinks the dog was only playing, the fact here is he attacked the baby in a vicious way, by dragging the baby out of boys arms then continue dragging baby across grass.

I am not making excuses for the dog I just see things in a different perspective to some.

The dog was lying down chewing something, the child approached the dog with hand outstretched, dog ignores, child walks away,dog ignores, for some reason the boy goes after child who then runs, dog joins in knocks child over (before boy reached the child) ‘but did not go in to maul the child’ to me had it been vicious it would have jumped at that opportunity and the boy would not have stopped it.

Boy picks up child and dog is jumping up I presume barking/snapping at the child, had it meant business it would have bitten or grabbed girl then and held on, Then there is a tussle beside the owner when boy and child get knocked over again the dog had the opportunity to maul or bite child but didn’t, there is no doubt boy or child would have been badly bitten. Still trying to get hold of child, boy and child are knocked/pulled over by dog who then grabs child’s clothing eventually dragging child along’ at one point the boy lost his grip and the dog was still dragging the child by clothes

If it was looking at the child as ‘prey’ it would then have gone for some part of the body but it made no attempt to do so,

As I see it the dog had several opportunities to do some serious damage to the child but didn’t.

As for it happening to myself ,I am pleased to say having owned the breed for over 50yrs ive never had an incident.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, there are those who disagree and I respect that, the dog’s behaviour was unacceptable but it’s still my opinion that the dog wasn't vicious. AS no minds are about to be changed, I think its best ‘to agree to disagree’.

Except my main point of posting this thread, as evidenced by the title was whether people thought that it was accurate to call the dog vicious. If you believe that its accurate to call the dog vicious, then so be it. I disagree. The end result of the "vicious attack" was that nobody was injured. Over here, dog "vicious attacks" don't work like that at all and I can't see the sense in saying that an incident involving no bites and no true injury can label a dog a "vicious attacker". Lol, it makes no sense to me at all.

Why did it take so long for the adults to intervene and stop the dog? The dog was still wagging its tail after as if it was a game. Bad on all fronts

Playing tuggie with a dog is a game. They win, it is a game. They then shake the tuggie and throw it around. It is a game.

I am NOT saying that the dog was viscous - the dog thought it was a game. But it was dangerously out of control, tail wagging or not, and that 18 month-old toddler would not have had a chance if the dog had her to himself after dragging her around away from everyone else.

It did not do any major damage because it could not get the toddler to himself. Who knows what might have happened if it had?

Playing tuggie with a dog is a game. They win, it is a game. They then shake the tuggie and throw it around. It is a game.

I am NOT saying that the dog was viscous - the dog thought it was a game. But it was dangerously out of control, tail wagging or not, and that 18 month-old toddler would not have had a chance if the dog had her to himself after dragging her around away from everyone else.

It did not do any major damage because it could not get the toddler to himself. Who knows what might have happened if it had?

Have a look at this. The major difference is the dogs in questions breeds/sizes. The dog in my original thread and this dog are no more vicious than each other... It's just that a GERMAN SHEPHERD could have really hurt the child by accident. He's not a vicious boy, and I'll never accept that. German Shepherd's have more drive, power, size, and stamina than Pugs so it LOOKED a lot worse, but it really was the same thing.

BTW - the child in this video seems VERY VERY HAPPY! I'm not saying that its okay to allow dogs to do that, but even 99% of the kids Nigredo knocked over were laughing and found it fun. Dogs should be trained not to tug on kids... But when they don't, things like this can happen.

This 100%

The dog was playing IMO, all be it very OTT and was obviously over stimulated the more amped up it got. But in no way did I see a truly aggressive dog. True attacks tend to be more intense, quicker and WILL cause bite injuries. This dog had plenty of oppurtunity to bite the child, but didn't. The game was more thrilling. Not to say it's behaviour wasn't, or couldn't have been dangerous, because as with any small child/large dog interactions there is the risk of injury, and this dogs behaviour could have turned to predatory drift type behaviour if left to its own devices which could have ended far more seriously.

Is the dog vicious? No. Potentially dangerous? Yes.

This was a prey motivated behavior. Which is a big aspect of many dogs play and other behaviors. Prey instinct is an underlying trait of various behaviors. When a dog wants to chase a ball, that's play and it's motivated by prey instincts. This is a herding breed, herding dogs chase and control a herd and will even nip them when needed. However they don't attack, take them down and kill (or at least they are not supposed to with proper breeding & training), yet it is a prey driven behavior. When a dog chases a cat, then mouths and barks at the cornered cat it's playing roughly and doesn't intent to harm but it still prey driven. When a dog gets excited for a tug toy, the dog wants to play, still prey drive. Dogs wag their tail and get excited when they are exhibiting prey driven behaviors. Like wanting to chase a ball, bite a hide, fight another dog, chase a small animal, bite a sleeve or chase the decoy. Saying that it's just playing and not making the connection to prey drive isn't accurate.

It is hard to tell the complete dynamics, but we can't rule out a prey driven response. Which can turn serious and cause injury. Especially to smaller kids. A dog can be playing and then things get out of control as the dog gets more excited (or the kid runs and especially if they fall), if no one is there to get involved a child could be easily killed.

I would not allow that dog around my child. How do you know the child wasn't injured? The dog is out of control. It's horrible! This is also a very old debate I've seen on other forums. The dog is overexcited. That is obvious. However, if the dog really wanted to do serious harm, it could have killed the child with ease. The dog should be trained to recognize humans as alphas, not something to treat like a small animal or toy! I do not justify this behavior at all. But, like I said, if the dog wanted to kill the child, it could have done it easily. I don't believe this was a game, though. I don't see any bite marks on the child in the video. Everybody is obviously just seeing what they want to see.