Breeding Help Discussions

I'm a hobby breeder of Wheaten Terriers who is pretty new at it. I've had two litters so far, both with the same mom. We now have an 18 month old girl who is finally coming into heat. Our male began noticing her around march 1st...we have been putting them together for a few minutes everyday since to see if she will stand for him. The last two weeks he has been after her pretty heavy, but she is still in the growling and snapping stage, so we pull her out of his pen and try again the next day. Yesterday was the closest yet, she stood for a minute while our male got on her, I thought they were about to tie, but our male dropped off of her fully extended and dripping. Tried to put them together again a little later and she was fighting again. So, this morning it seemed like it would be the day, put her in with my male and nothing...for the past hour they have been just laying and chewing bones. I'm wondering if anyone out there can help me figure out what is going on with my girls heat cycle? Please only experienced breeders comment...I have searched everything possible on google and please no lectures on the evils of dog breeding. Thanks!

If its her first or 2nd season then its far to soon to have her mated, personally I wouldn't mate until after her 4th season.

You say 'finally' coming into heat, does this mean that this is her first season?
If so, she may be physically ready, but may not have had time to mentally adjust to the changes in her body, so maybe leaving it to two years old would be a better option. Does your Breed Club have a recommendation on this?
Also, do I understand that you are putting the pair into his pen and leaving them to it? It is more usual to handle the mating - especially with a maiden bitch, who may need a lot of reassuring and supporting. You do not seem to be sure of your bitches receptive window, have you thought of having your girl progesterone tested? Even experienced breeders find this useful, even more so if you have to travel to use a popular sire. I think trying a male so many times with no positive result for him, will eventually lead to his losing interest. A managed mating at exactly the right time will always give the happiest result for both parties, IMHO.

The younger bitch isn't related to the male is she? Also, is there any reason why you're using him again instead of an outside stud?

I agree with everything Carole mentioned above.

It is just fine to breed on the second heat, one of my girls had a litter her second heat and is a perfect mother...my question is really looking for info from fellow breeders on dogs with problem heats or at least just abnormal ones. If you are a breeder could you tell me if you have ever had a dog with a heat like the one I've described in the op. I appreciate all the other info, but its stuff I've heard on google already that doesn't give me any answers in my situation. Thanks

Because you own a male doesn't mean that he is going to be the best match for any female you own. An experienced breeder will not use their own stud on every bitch, they will try to improve the bloodline with each generation. Your aim should be to make the breed you have chosen better and healthier, not to produce puppies for economic reasons.
The convenience or cost of a mating should never enter into your choice of a sire.

That's ridiculous...I knew I would get lectures from the 'responsible' owner crowd, which is what I specifically asked not to get because you waste time. I also asked to hear from experienced breeders because they know what they are talking about...unlike you who just regurgitates a bunch of things you googled.
Yes, I breed to make money. Get over it. There is a high demand for quality purebred puppies, which I have. I'm sure you don't work for free either, I'm sure you are just as evil as me and do a job for mo..mo..MONEY...don't even bother responding because I'm done with this lefty site.

And you're not an 'experienced' breeder. Just a BYB trying to make a quick buck with the most convenient dogs. Do you know anything about improving breed type? Choosing studs that compliment your bitch and her improve on her weaknesses? What health tests have both dogs had? What do they 'do' to prove their worth? Do you show them? Do any dog sports?

I'm betting all the answers to those questions will be "Huh??"

Go and get a real job instead of using your dog as a cash cow!

You make many assumptions.
I am almost 74 years old, and my affix was first registered in 1962. Since then I have showed, judged and bred dogs of four breeds from three different groups. I have served as a general dog show secretary, and as a breed club show secretary.
Because of my age I now only keep two dogs. I still attend dog shows for fun, but I also work my dogs successfully in Obedience and UK Working trials.
Do you think that I learned to do all this on Google?

Lol, you can't get much more experience than that! Still, the experience 'Andrew' is looking for is not of the good type.

Carole wrote:

"You make many assumptions.
I am almost 74 years old, and my affix was first registered in 1962. Since then I have showed, judged and bred dogs of four breeds from three different groups. I have served as a general dog show secretary, and as a breed club show secretary.
Because of my age I now only keep two dogs. I still attend dog shows for fun, but I also work my dogs successfully in Obedience and UK Working trials.
Do you think that I learned to do all this on Google?"


Touche!!!

I bred my 2 JRT's but I kept all the pups.
Before I bought my bitch (I already had a male dog) I made sure that neither dog/bitch or the parents/grandparents/aunts/uncles/nephews/nieces were related, I made sure that the bitch & her parents had no health problems, (had already checked my male dog & his parents before I bought him)
I waited until my bitch had her 4th season before mated my dogs, I never left them on their own, someone was with them in the dinning room (neuter ground away from their baskets) I spent near on 3 thousand pounds on register breeders licence, health checks, scans, vet fees, pre pregnancy worming/flea treatment, special bitch food, vet home visit once pups were born, puppy gruel, puppy worming treatments, puppy flea treatments, puppies microchips/tattoos.
I paid out the money because I was keeping all the pups & wanted good healthy strong puppies (There are lots of genetic illnesses in the JRT breeds because of BYB's & Puppy Farmers) hobby breeders can't make money because even if the pups are KC registered, there is a ceiling price for a pedigree puppy.

Even though I am slightly older than Carole, having been 74 years old just over a week ago, and my KC affix was registered a while after hers, I had a wonderful mentor who taught me all about breeding. Even though I gave it all up when I emigrated, what she taught me could never be found on Google - which did not exist in those days!

Anyone who thinks they can make money from breeding and selling puppies, especially fairly uncommon breeds, should only know what it cost me. And here we have an OP who first states that he is a "hobby breeder" and then says "I breed to make money."

I do not think I need to say any more.

I think I came over as a bit pompous, but he just hit a nerve.

Nah you came over just right, he asked for help, but then didn't want it when we offered our help.

Not at all pompous Carole.

Pompous? No way. You said exactly what I would have said. But I think I would not have been so polite.

@Malka I'm sorry I missed your birthday this year. I should have remembered, it is the same date that my mother's birthday used to be.

Happy Belated Birthday Malka.
Love from Carole, Eddie and Merry.