Well, well! Bobtail oops! sorry Boxacrazy, The cat is really set against the pidgeons now... Actually Richard would say that ! Wouldn't he! It is without a doubt to get around the docking issue plus a certain 'mans 'ego. The same 'man' being well in cahoots! with the Kennel club,allegedly !Some title like scientific adviser! I completely agree with previous writer Boxerheart. , best to all.
Hello, I would also like to add that I had my first Boxer A 'VON DOM' When I was very young in the 50s. I have had Boxers all my life . Showdogs and none showdogs. I am appalled at the actions of ,lets face it 'boys club' in allowing this infiltration of a noble breed to take place. Nothing wrong with a natural tail -more of our lovely breed surely. I wish them complete failure ...... to all true animal lovers I say bye for now and all the best..
This is distinctly getting very childish and how sad... So you had a Von Dom bred Boxer. You must have felt very honoured to have had one from Frau Stockmann. Dr Cattananch as you should know has been in the breed since the 1940's and had the litter sister to the 4th Champion listed in British Boxer Club's volume 1 of the Record book. That being Ch. Cuckmere Krinetta who was owned by Mrs Siggers and bred by Mrs Martland. This bitch was born on the 8th May 1945 and became a Champion in 1947. What an evil thing to wish on someone - failure. Dr Cattanach most certainly will have met such people's attitudes when trying to set breeding reccommendations for health issues PA, AS and most recently Cardiomyopathy. How glad for the breed am I that he has continued to work despite some trying to derail his efforts for the breed. If not we would have had PA crippled dogs and more dropping down dead from heart disease. UK Cardiologists agree the incidence of AS has reduced within our breed, now they are concerned with the incidence of Cardiomyopathy. Dr Cattananch has professional qualifications in his field of expertise, not titles bestowed. He has earned these through study and work. Not gifted them - well other than a fellowship which has only been given to a handful of scientists in the world. I think it would be interesting to get Dr Cattanach's comments but I am sure he's seen this all before..and he's pretty busy I should imagine with his work on health issues amongst other things for the world of dogs and people. I for one am glad that he's in Boxers as certainly the breed wouldn't have been in as healthy a position as it is now. Which in this day and age is certainly an achievement for the breed to be proud of. Bet others would wish for his expertise in their breeds too. There are very few geneticists that are dogs breeders, and that understand all that goes with both worlds. Which are willing to help with dogs and health issues, mostly in their own free time. I can think of only three that are currently in the world of dogs within the UK, Dr Cattanach, Dr Malcolm Willis and Dr Jeff Sampson. Where are those with specialisms in both genetics and dog breeding to take over from the helm when these gentleman retire from these 'duties'? Perhaps none are willing to put up with the aggro that comes with it?? If so, the world of dogs will definately be a poorer place. Shouldn't we be grateful that currently there are such people willing to help the canine world? I wish for all dogs of any breed or heritage to be healthy and happy in this world in which mankind brings them into.
The bobtail gene was bred in for asthetics, not health. The Boxer has a healthy tail - even if it had not been bred for consistency. I applaud Dr C for the heart research. But respect is not justified for the cosmetic meddling. As stated..there is now a snow ball effect in Australia with some breeders wanting to gain permission to cross the bob tail boxer with dobermans. Lets just keep on crossing hey. To date those of us behind the scenes have blocked it. What is this madness driven only by ego..and the blindess created by it that makes people justify themselves playing god in the name of cosmetics? :twisted: Viva la France if they have banned it.
Well! Well! , it seems some people have nothing better to do than surf the net looking for an argument. Funny how you just happened to this forum, on this particular subject so you can vent your dislike of one man. What is it you wish him failure on.. the bobtail,?? well he has already succeeded on that one. Or working towards eradicating diseases in OUR breed wonderful!!!!!!!!! So you are so tied up in personal disdain for someone, you would wish "failure" in our beloved breeds health !! Funny I got the impression you where a lover of the breed, you would not think so when such nastiness is coming from you.. I would have though ANYONE who is involved with the Boxer , would be spurring Dr C on, with his work, after all a healthy breEd is the most important thing.. Not a personal attack , from some one who is sitting on their backsides , finding it easier to "attack" than putting all that pent up emotion to good........like helping your breed.
I have 2 boxers, our girl Roxy (16 months old) and our new boy Busta (13 weeks). Both come from the bobtail gene pool. Roxy has a long tail and Busta the short. Both are exceptionally looking dogs with the Vet just this morning recommending we look at showing Busta due to his quality. My twobobs worth is that the natural progression of the breed, to keep what ppl wanted with tail docking, is to extend into the bobtail gene. It is a contrived dog anyway due to a number of breeding practics 'back in the day!' Lots of research has been completed and the generations role on. I recently had a breeder in Newcastle, Australia tell me our Busta was a part Corgi and Roxy was full blood boxer. He shut up quick smart when I told him she was from a litter that had natural bob tails. It's the future so whats the problem? Ppl wanted tail docked dogs, I call that mutilation. A very intelligent man puts his skills to good use and creates what ppl want and yet we still hear in 2009 ppl saying it's not real. I think they are great and my dogs are wonderful family members. Go the bobtail into the future......
The Newcastle breeder is techinically correct, as though both boxers were born out of litters that contained bobtails not all boxer puppies in those litters carried the bobtail gene. The one with the natural bob tail contains the bobtail gene which is Corgi, and so that puppy is considered part corgi still by many of us. Corgi gene = boxer not bred back to pure. The one with the natural long tail has lost the Corgi gene..and thus is a pure bred boxer. ie..truely bred back to 100% pure bred boxer, and cannot genetically, breed or throw a bobtail pup. You have to look at the genetic level..not the hype. With the reminant of the corgi in a bobtailed boxer, you have a new strain, a new breed that should be separate like some breeds separate coat types for example. But you do not have a pure bred original boxer. It really is that simple.
Granted a longtailed pup born from bobtail parentage will not produce a naturally short tailed pup if put back to a longtailed Boxer however they can still produce bobtail puppies if put back to a bobtail. Althou I have known of a Boxer that was a bobtail from parents with longtails. Cavejes Beyond Belief bred in Norway and he did not have any Bobtails in his pedigree. The naturally long tail still contains the same percentage of Corgi heritage as it's naturally short tailed sibling. The only difference is that the bobtail has the gene for short tail whereas it's long tailed sibling doesn't. The Corgi ancestor is still in exactly the same position in the pedigree on both siblings. Looking at the genetic level and not the hype... At the genetic level all Boxers regardless of heritage are 'originals' as their genes determine sex, colour, markings, tails etc. No two will be the same unless they are born identical twins. Which I would assume (correctly or incorrectly) is very rare in dogs. Certainly I haven't seen this or known of this amongst Boxer breeders that I know. Genetic diversity is very important when it comes to combatting genetic/hereditary diseases. It allows the opportunity to breed away from genetic ills without completely losing the 'breed'.
One wonders Kirstine, why some old exhibitors and breeders of our breed, are so anti Dr Cattanach, and his research into health issues and eradicating them....:? :? The old "keep it quiet " may have some part to play, after all how wants to be associated with unhealthy lines!!!!!!! So its always best to shoot the messenger dont you think!!!
Dr Cattenachs CM research is acknowledged and admired. But everyone can stray in their focus. It is possible to respect someones past good deeds while looking on horrified at the mistakes.
] I`m sorry, but the use of the term horrified is extreme to say the least, you must be looking at a different result than I am, a Bobtal Boxer is no different to any other Boxer, they look, act , and are the same as any other. Not sure how you can classify then as a different breed or split them into a different types, You may be against them, thats fine, dont buy one... would be interesting to see the population of the bobtail in your Country. For you to show such distain for them , you must have experience of many to be able to judge with such passion!!!
Sorry but you are only reading what you want to see. As I previously stated Cavajes Beyond Belief HAD NO bobtail parentage or ancestors in his pedigree. However I cannot rmember if he was ever used at stud here to determine if his offspring would also be bobtailed. It may be another type of tail that looks short tailed but not a bobtail.I.E. Screw tailed. Sorry I have to disagree re the Corgi heritage, the bobtail gene may not be present BUT the Corgi percentage in their pedigree is still very much the same be it if they have bobtail or longtail. THIS IS A KEY FACT especially for one so concerned about PEDIGREE like yourself. All breeds of dog have more than one gene to make them the dog that they are. Talking of bulldust and waffling - shows how much you really know about the genetic diversity and breeding of many of the bobtails... You do not need to go back into the 'bobtail line' if you have a short tailed 'bobtail' you can outcross lines as much as your heart desires as long as each generation you keep the bobtailed puppy to breed on from. My litter sisters are very diverse and if I remember correctly they have no common ancestors in 5 generations so therefore not inbred as you'd like to incorrectly assume. Or not as inbred as the majority of what you term 'pure' Boxers especially in the UK show scene, where the popular sire syndrome is quite evident, when you look at the show catalogues. Dr Cattanach's research in CM is very much in the present here and now. It is still very much on-going. The 'past' was PA, and the more recent past was AS. Unlike you I don't consider the bobtail a mistake. Merely proof of one mans achievements and skill in being able to breed a dog true to breed type in a short number of generations, thus proving to others that if needed or wanted you can do this in all breeds for the good of all breeds for health and if wanted for asthetics subject to all permissions needed from the KC. This is the evidence of a visionary breeder, who happens to be able to call on his professional expertise as a Dr of genetics. Perhaps if the original breeders of the Boxer had realised in years to come of the docking/cropping bans etc they too would have bred for naturally short tailed and erect eared dogs by infusing other breeds to achieve this or through selecting dogs which had these traits.
I look at the act of breeding a deforming gene into a existing relatively healthy breed as the horror. You should know full well the gene does not breed true, produces kinks and odd lengths, and some no tails whatsoever. You should know if YOU are so passionate about this strain that that the bobtail will never breed true. What the Bobtail has become in Australia is an excuse to hide illegal banding behind calling all pups in a litter a bobtail when it is proven percentages of each litter will not be. Of course these derivatives will look and act Boxer, they are mostly Boxer..but the fact remains they are not. And they are not accepted by country of origin. I am pretty pissed that the UK kennel club allowed the experiment on a breed that was not theirs. Making a decision for the rest of the world..that the rest of the world has to clean up or contend with. Yes I have voted with my feet..and principles
