Malinois AKC First Herding Trial Videos

Not true about the ears, but the easiest way to distinguish a sheep from a goat is their tail (as you said)

The idea in the HGH trial is to replicate the farming system in Germany (which is hugely different to that in the UK). Sheep are in what are called open grazes (no fences) and these pastures are often beside fields with crops that are not to be eaten/trampled by the sheep. Hence the dog runs the "furrow" as a living fence, to keep the sheep in the graze and out of the crops. The dog works independently to patrol the borders.

When the graze is eaten down the shepherd leads the sheep to the next pasture (the sheep are heavy, quiet sheep which are trained to follow the shepherd). Often the sheep pastures are several miles apart and the shepherd must lead the sheep down public roads and over other farmland, so it is important for the dog to keep the sheep in line behind the shepherd, so they don't stray into other farm crops or into the path traffic etc.

Hence I can see the point in the HGH style trials, but not really in a situation like the one with the Malinois in the original video.

Oops meant to say, we have had Zak out again a few times when moving sheep from the hill to fields, or fields to pen, but not out in a purely training situation for a while. It is wonderful to see him so under control, but it may be that he never gets to work like the breed was intended - due to our farming system and the type of sheep we have (as I have said loads of times before, so sorry for repeating myself).

so....german shepherds are more guardians of sheep? why the name shepherd?, although I suppose shepherds do "look after" sheep. I think it just gives the wrong idea of what they should be doing.

Great that he can join in anyway

Apologies for a confused reply....just spent 4 hours doing wormcounts so brain not in gear!

Helen

Doesn't help that I can't put the sound on (I'm at work), but from the muted video, I really can't see what use the dog is suposed to be?

The skill of the GSD in herding doesn't really come in the moving of the sheep (as with the BC) - although a trained herding (I prefer the more descriptive title of tending, rather than herding) GSD will keep the sheep in a line behind the shepherd and out of crops they should not be in, as well as out of the path of oncoming traffic. The real strength of the GSD comes with his instinct (and training) to stay on the borders (the natural line of definition) between what is a field with crops and what is pasture for the sheep and then to work there independently and patrol the borders.

One of the most renowned shepherds, Manfred Heyne, once said "People who compete in the sport of schutzhund and breeders often like to quote the founder of the SV. But which point of view did von Stephanitz have? One can look it up in his book, The German Shepherd Dog In Word and Picture: "The true and most noble job of the German shepherd dog is of course looking after the herds and, as the name says, specifically the sheep herds."

I think tending dogs would be a more apt description. I think herding is quite misleading to us in the UK, as we are so used to the herding style of the border collie, which is completely incomparable.

GSDs were not designed as flock guardians though, in the same way as, say, the Maremma or Pyrenean Mountain dog.

I would imagine (but don't know for sure) that the GSD would be very versatile though - and could herd (to an extent), patrol and also protect if the need arose.

so, they are basically, a fence? Just doing a quick google about the history, and it says the gsd has only been recognised for just over 100 years, and was created from German sheepdogs. Do you know what they were? or where they a type of gsd and they wanted to better it, for want of another word.

Reading further, it says about them being used for police dogs at the turn of the century (assuming they are meaning 1900). They hadn't been around for long as sheepdogs, before they moved to police work.

All very interesting.

Helen

More like...............One Mal and his Goat!

It looked to me, as though the Dog was getting instructions from the camera holder as well?
Thanks for sharing though.

Woman takes goats for walk with dog...

thankyou, yes that makes sense - I like the term 'tending'

as Helen is saying too somethings I have wondered for a while

It is well documented what the founder wanted from the breed
Was he a shepherd? Did he suceed in his lifetime? Were the founding dogs used actually a breed that was usefully working sheep in the area? Are they used as extensivly in their area to work sheep as collies are used here? Or is it a hobby thing?

Not trying to be rude - I love them as dogs but I wondered at the idea of one guy deciding he wanted to create a breed to do a job compared to how collies more organically developed
I may be far wrong but it felt by reading the histories I can find that he was one guy with an idea but the breed never really established as a real herding dog so he moved on and seen there great versitility in army and police dogs

I, too, have always wondered why an ex-cavalry officer wanted to create a "sheepdog" - did he plan to become a sheep farmer in his retirement? Or was the breed given the name because it was initially composed of crosses of existing German sheep dog breeds? And if the controversial wolf-cross did take place, how would that have benefited a genuine herding breed?

His development of the breed seems to have taken place shortly after/concurrent with the classification of the Belgian Sheepdog breeds (another 'evolved' herding breed) in their native country, so perhaps he was aiming to emulate that? Or did he always have a general-purpose army dog in mind?

The are called shepherds because they take the place of the shepherd when the sheep(or cattle)are left with the dogs. The shepherd walks a line over which the stock isn't to graze & the dogs have to"patrol"the line to stop the stock going over it If the shepherd is with the stock it saves him/her from having to stop the stock from straying

They are not flock guardians as their role is not to bond with the stock & guard them as the guardian breeds do(like the Anatolians do

This interview with a German Shepherd of the human kind with over 60 years of experience of the breed may be of interest-BTW Von Stephanitz did not"create"the breed on his own

Thanks for posting that link Dyane, that was the one I was going to put up. The rest of the website is worth a read too, for anyone interested in the herding/tending GSD.

That was just an inredible thing to read. So how can any of us argue with that? It says it all.
We re defending his beliefs, and im proud of that.

LOLOL ;-)

I had clicked the link but got sidetracked and only read it tonight
It says it all just perfectly - very glad to hear the dogs were used properly to work sheep and bred for their ability
and also sad but not surprised by his comments on the gating and angulation in GSD's people who use the dogs for the job they were designed for have had no need for the flappy feet