Looking for a new pup General Chat

Ahem All ISDS registered puppies have to come from eye tested parents so just because their adverts do not say this doesn't mean the dogs have not been health tested.

My 2 ISDS dogs are from eye & hip tested dogs & have been DNA tested Normal for TNS/CL/MDR 1/ & neither have CEA(by DNA test)my boy is a carrier-but does not have CEA.

I stress that I recommended ISDS reg puppies not any puppy advertized on FG

I paid £400 for my Wu & he is KC only reg-I wanted the bloodlines & the type of dog I knew he would be.

My 2 ISDS dogs would have cost me £200/£300 respectively & are just as healthy so push KC only breeders because they charge £600, it doesn't cost £600 to produce a healthy puppy from two fully health tested parents. I know my Keewee's puppies will not be £600 each & they will not be bred for looks & the show ring they will be bred ethically to work !

Not many of the Obedience & Agility BCs/WSD are fully health tested, I know of a litter from an Obedience Ch Bitch to a dog working ticket in obedience, neither have had any health tests done & they cost a lot more than £300 !

A friend of mine paid £550 for a WSD from non fully health tested parents(the sire was a top & I do mean a top Obedience dog)two of the litter were PTS due to seizing-one very good reason I steer very clear of Obedience bred BC/WSD. Their dog BTW & his brother have both won Obedience CCs so they got what they wanted but at what cost ?

Obviously your experience is different to mine.

A lot different I check out pedigrees for many of the"sport"litters being bred & I'm appalled by the lack of health testing done & also the lack of knowledge of the"breeders" as BCs/WSDs are one of my breeds I have a lot of personal experience of I know the pitfalls of breeding for dogs which are aimed solely for winning in the KC activities.

I did a check of all the dogs entered in the Agility & Obedience one year at Crufts & came up with the startling fact that few of the purpose bred dogs came from parents who had had any health testing done at all-not even the basic eye/hip tests

Just checked the fleamarket on Agilitynet & found this litter !!!!!!!!!!!!

Words fail me

OMG !! - does agility net not check the adverts ? -

that's excellent ! - is this for CEA and PRA ? - what about hip scoring ?

Since the 1960s(long before the KC)all ISDS breeding dogs had to have a current eye test at the time of the mating. Both the dog & bitch owner had to see evidence of this(the eye tests were recorded on the back of the registration certificates by the panelist)

They haven't as yet got round to making hip/elbow scoring a requirement, but more members are having their dogs scored & DNA tested.

The eye test is for PRA & CEA(however of course CEA can go normal upto 16 weeks so litter screening was being encouraged & now DNA testing)

They have a very strict rule my Rjj as a CEA carrier can only be mated to a DNA normal bitch if I want the puppies registered & his puppies would have to be DNA tested before any puppies from them could be registered(Not planning on using Rjj BTW)

There are no such rules for KC registered BCs/WSDs, no registrations are refused from the offspring of carriers regardless of whether their DNA status is known or not :-(

Obedience collies can be a whole other issue.
My gran competed at a high level and had a pup from a top dog only to have to have her pts due to fitting.
A lot of people wanted and had pups out of this particular sire and a lot had issues of one kind or another, mainly epilepsy though.
The sire had no health checks and I doubt the dams did either (I know at least two of the dams didn't).

I work full time, live in rented accommodation and have 3 rescues.

Out of curiosity, were you able to rehome pups? And did they have to be neutered?

I couldn't find a rescue that was happy with all of my requirements and would be good to know of one that did for the future

However the same ican be said for show collies, pet collies, etc

You are also talking about many years ago when health testing across ALL breeds was much less common.

True it was about 20 years ago I think.
I still have friends that compete at a high level in obedience and they say there is still a problem with breeding a good dog to make money, not everyone with a top dog has top standards when it comes to breeding unfortunately.

This is very true.

What a shame you aren't up North, we are getting an ISDS reg pup from a really nice litter in the next couple of weeks.

How far would you be prepared to travel? The breeder/triallist in Lancashire where I trained my dogs and got my collies from often has pups, or knows of pups for sale.

I would definitely keep an eye out in the Farmers Guardian for ISDS registered litters. Farmers tend to charge around £150 for a registered (from eye tested parents) pup.

The responsible farmers/shepherds only breed when they want a pup for themselves. Triallists tend to breed more regularly as they are always looking for that "special" pup. Border collies from working farms never cost more than around £200 ime. We charge £150 for our border collie pups when we have a litter. We have had two litters in the last six years. Both parents are proven working sheepdogs with excellent temperaments and are eye tested and ISDS registered - all the pups are also ISDS registered.

Thanks Moobli, Lancashire is a bit far. I don't currently have my own car so OH would have to drive and I know he won't want to drive that far. Hmm my dad might though, I will ask him when I see him next week.

OK, this is the website of the guy I am talking of

http://www.longtonsheepdogs.com/

Found these breeders in the International Sheepdog News

Rusca Farm Working Sheepdogs. Sue & Richard Little. Handler training days and courses. Outside event demonstrations. Dogs at stud. Dogs taken for training. Norfolk.
Tel 01603 871521.
Email ruscasheepdogs@btinternet.com

Just googled and came up with this .

I dont know about other breeds but I know very much up here in collies what you pay for is not what you get

I know of LOTS of farm bred WSD's around here, some KC registered and few ISDS registered - and out of them all I know of ONE with bad hips, and two with adolecent aggression problems that are lovely dogs now, all the rest of them (touch wood) are healthy and with pretty great tempraments - a couple of them were rescues with bad starts and no socalisation - yet all are making lovely family pets

I also know quite a few sport/pet bred collies, some from a breeder who has been reccomended as a good breeder on this forum a few times
and I have to say out of all of them there is not a single one I would live with
Health problems from seriously bad hips to epilepsy - both cases with dogs having to be pts before they were 2 years old and the rest with aggression issues (a very good APBC behaviourist told one couple their collie was the most fearful dog he had ever met in his life) and constantly hyper

I dont know any show line collies up here but a good friend of mine is a vet and when I was talking to her about breeds I liked she said not to touch a show line collie around here as she is seeing some very worrying temprament issues in them just now

the healthy good temprament dogs all cost around £100 - the other dogs cost many many times that much

Personally I would much rather see the parents and relatives of the pup working, healthy and with a good temprament from a guy breeding a litter to get another working dog rather than a armful of papers

The surviving dogs from the litter that contained at least 2 dogs that were PTS due to seizures are not long long ago the dogs themselves are only 5 years old this year & the Crufts Championship dogs I checked were from this year.

The other litter from totally untested obedience dogs were only born this year !