Why not a Dutch shepherd Discussions

Is this a discussion about GSDs? No, I didn't think so. Why is it that as soon as anyone has a problem with showing dogs in general they start pointing fingers at exaggerated breeds? Like it's relevant to the discussion? If you want to discuss the changing shape of the German Shepherd dog there are LOTS of threads on here.

I show my dogs, dislike exaggeration and own two breeds which have remained unchanged and are still able to work. No. they don't bite people on the sleeve, they run around a ring, so I guess they are not proper dogs right?

Well said! Neither of the two factions are perfect, both show and working breeders have their faults, you'd have to be completely blind to believe otherwise. I can never understand the need for people to pi$$ all over other peoples dreams.

.........................................................................
The clue is in the name....

Unless your dog is actually working sheep, you can't claim it is 'doing what it was bred to do'.

so what if a sheep dog works ducks ?

................................................................................
We should be celebrating the many things these breeds CAN do, not arguing.

well said ...But this is all down to .
What Does it Mean and understanding why it said what it said on the dogs collar to me thats just the same as people that see a Rottweiler and say oh devil dog

any way better get back to my work but as Long as we Love the dogs then we just have to agree to disagree.

So you just thought you'd have a pop at those of use who like to show? Charming attitude!

Love Presa's

.............................................................................

they don't bite people on the sleeve, they run around a ring, so I guess they are not proper dogs right.
........................................................................................................... a passive drugs dog like the dog in the photo .....they don't bite people on the sleeve he/she lets his handler know it's there by giving the alert signal. I was going to put 4 videos up of a trained Beagle doing Cadaver work also a German Shepherd that came from a pet home doing illegal substances and money detection but think i will just hold back and come back ones the dog show season is over lol so iam a way back to work as we have a lot of snow this end .


............................................................................................................
as a Crufts vet said...

I can appreciate the problems faced by some pedigree dogs and who are trying to improve the situation, and a hardcore of breeders who simply cannot accept these facts and who continue to treat their dogs as trophies rather than companions

And of course this doesn't happen in working dog breeders? All working dog breeders treat their dogs as companions? Really? As someone pointed out earlier some working breeders are exaggerating temperament - we know that some show breeders are exaggerating type. Both are detrimental to ALL dogs.

Good breeders breed for both temperament and type - it's no good saying my dogs are hip scored and eye tested etc. if your dog is aggressive (and I'm not pointing fingers at you personally). The fact is most working line people have a chip on their shoulders and seem to think their dogs are superior because they can do x, x and x.

And for the record, I wouldn't want a dog of my dog's breed hanging off a sleeve, It would be most irresponsible. My main breed cannot perform their original function in the UK without falling foul of the law, so they are pets and show dogs, fit for function, unexaggerated and typy with good temperaments. Why would anyone have an issue with that?

Well said. I've been following this thread and think it is quite sad that so many (obviously) knowledgeable people in the dog world have resorted to point scoring, bickering and turned it into a p*ssing contest!

All of them seem to have such good advice and experience to offer and that other less experienced members can learn from - I've learned about dogs I knew hardly anything about reading it - but really disappointed with the petty turn it has taken.

the funny thing is my Top dog is my black pug
as i say some breed for need and some breed for greed

....I really don't know why I'm bothering to reply but here goes - firstly you asked for pictorial proof that dogs I've bred are capable of doing things other than 'just' showing - here's Athena in training for SAR work in Norway where she was exported as a pup



and Queezle working in scotland



and Lily working as part of a communication and social skill programme for autistic youngsters



and our most recent assistance dog Bijou

not to mention the many pups that have gone to agility and obedience homes - but you know I really don't need to validate my breeding programme to you ......

you carry on breeding dogs that are unsuitable as family pets ...and I and the rest of the responsible BSD breeders will carry on picking up the pieces like this

http://www.dogsey.com/showthread.php?t=167837

.............................................................................
you carry on breeding dogs that are unsuitable as family pets.

now this you will have to back up ? ASP

one of my family pets

very good post Loki's mum and very very true what you said .....The fact is most working line people have a chip on their shoulders and seem to think their dogs are superior because they can do x, x and x.



ps . I have cats @ falcons @ fish also I do not work for any one so iam well happy as i have enough kennel space for 70 dogs and more ,,,,,,so my life is just chill with my dogs and others

Any way ..
where does the brindle colour come from in the DS...

from the farm dog down the road from us

my yong ones pup

My lurcher is offended now MM. You can train a sighthound
My Vic won the Obedience trophy at Dog club last year



I will admit though there were a lot of moments when he was a youngster when I wished I'd got something different, lol.

Come on Bigdogs, you have to post the vids of the Beagle and Gsd, it would be selfish to keep them to yourself.

Love that photo of Vic

The desire to create a breed that would clearly distinguish itself from the German and Belgian Shepherd dogs led to a color restriction in 1914. Silver or gold-brindle for the shorthair, silver and gold brindle, as well as pepper and salt and blue-gray for the rough hair, and silver and gold brindle plus auburn for the longhair. Silver being gray stripes on black, and gold being yellow or red stripes on black. The minimum sizes for the short and rough haired varieties were raised by about two inches, with a little less for the longhaired variety. From that moment on all white was forbidden. Those drastic restrictions in permitted color and/or size led to an enormous deterioration of the available genetic material. More than anything, the exclusion of all white excluded an enormous amount of dogs from the breed pool since white is such a dominant gene. In Belgium however, yellow Dutch Shepherds with white markings could suddenly be entered as Belgian Shepherds (shorthair, Malinois) since there was no restriction of white there. Brindle Belgians could, in return, be entered as Dutch Shepherds. In 1928 some white was permitted again, and in 1934, yellow, red, brown, and liver were re-introduced as permitted colors for the shorthair, with yellow and reddish brown, as well as ashen re-introduced for the rough air. The longhair had no color changes. It was too late however. The breed base was small and a lot of good dogs had already been excluded due to the several color and structure changes. The clock could not be turned back again. In 1960 the colors were restricted back to the way things were in 1914. Only this time the auburn longhair disappeared

..it's interesting that the BSD and Dutch Shepherd have always been inter-related to the extent that the Dutch could realistically simply be described as the 5th variety of BSD - given that the gene pool for Dutch Shepherds is so small it could be worth bringing them into the intervariety breeding programme that the BSD are now able to use , at present this is: Groenendael x Tervueren, Malinois X Tervueren, and Laekenois x Malinois -but the long haired Dutch could be X with the Tervueren or Groenendael, the wire coat Dutch X with the Laekenois and the smooth coat Dutch X with Malinois to widen the gene pools of both breeds.