Hello, opinions on Irish Blue Staffs wanted please.. Discussions

Many breeders would have made that pup dissapear before anyone saw it, just like they do with the long haired Johnson American Bulldogs that pop up every now again because of the stupid John D Johnson infusion of St.Bernard blood to add size along with Mastiff/English Bulldog/Oldee/Pitbull and so on...

There is fully established lines of solid black American Bulldog and guess what, they all started with an outcross to a pitbull..Now I'm not saying the breeders of your dog did such an outcross as in the UK we all know it would be illegal but you better believe someone further back did. The American Bulldog is one of the most cross bred so called "Pure Bred dogs" I think there ever has been, hence all the variety in type and colour. But then again the American bulldog has only been around since the 70's so it's a fairly new breed and different people want it for different reasons so it has gone different ways.

I shouldn't have said what I did further back on this topic and apologise to who ever I offended.

I know of the line, and NON of those lines were found in my own girl - even going generations back, two folks researched her pedigree and the only explanation that was given was the puppy was a generation throwback! I've seen others since then, black & black and whites.

I can guarantee that it was a generation throw back but to an outcross to another breed.

You have to remeber just like I said certain breeders would make pups that "wern't right" dissapear before anyone saw they would also outcross and never put it on paper, it's part of breeding dogs....American Bulldog peds are hung more than most breeds. The solid black coat has just been banned from a few registries (that aren't fans of added bull terrier blood) for not being a bulldog colour, they know where it comes from and don't like the fact it's so obvious so they are banning it!! My boy's brother nearly got disqualified for having 3 large black patches on his back but the judge found two brown hairs which classes it as black brindle which is acceptable.

I think we should start up another thread lol

You saying my dogs paperwork was ''hung'' It's funny that, cos two of the main people in the breed at the time had dogs from her linage infact one of them still does!! Yet, both who looked over her paperwork said there wasn't a problem, everything was in order, anyway, she wasn't black, she was red/brindle/white. We almost picked the black pup - the pups had some really nice well known dogs behind them.

Here she is - she's at the bridge now

Nice girl.

The fact is all american bulldog papers are hung in one way or another from way back, to sell pups and to make their line seem better than reality...It's what happened and still happens to this day....Bill Hines/Alan Scott/John Johnson were doing it all the time, if you knew about AB's you would know this as it's common knowledge!!

Who were these two main people in the breed ? I talk to show judges and breeders from all across the world on near enough a daily basis so maybe I know them and I could pick their brains as to where the black coat comes from if it's not from what I allready know.

ps..you can look at paperwork all day, it means jack!!!...Unless you was there at every breeding that happened previous to her then how would you know for sure what people did ? I'm fortunate enough to be able to speak to most of the breeders that are in my boys ped or know people that knew them well so I can get all the info I need but even that I take with a pinch of salt.

there are no quality blue dogs they look terrible so far inbred they dont even look like the breed they represent the last quality dog that had blue in his coat was either psycho or milo this is apparently what these dogs are down from.
well known fact blues equal puppy peddlers make a few more quid wouldnt give one the kennel space and im sure something has been added to keep them blue.


as for kc dogs look what dog was studded the most for his blue coat

blue to blue = ****e

I know of some real good blue dogs, seen some biguns do real good at athletic trials but nobody can justify breeding any two dogs to get puppies of a certain colour no matter how good the parents.

what tera these are loving family dogs and shes not kc but iKC they are the originally the true staff before cruft bread the smaller staff for showing and they are no way anything to do with pits i have 4 kids so would not ever but a pit or anything like a pit near them i have done alot of research into these dogs plus my dogs family tree i Will try and put pics on of here (just got to work out how ) lol

hi phil

irish staffie is indeed known as being used as a cover name by dodgy pit bull breeders.

also, there is not a breed called irish staffie recognised by the irish kennel club

i dont see the relevance of your referance to your kids if the dog is friendly?

IKC doesnt stand for irish kennel club in this instance btw.

thats part of the scam.

I agree,it stands for intercontinental kennel club.

You have that wrong,the breed standard has been changed,the height has been dropped,in 1935 it was between 15 and 18 inches where as in the standard of 1987 it is 14-16 inches with weight to correspond.IKC was not around when the first SBT was registered and this is a recent registry which is worthless.They do not breed to a breed standard,even though they say they prefer the old standard for the SBT of 1935.
As far as I'm aware Crufts didn't and have not bred any dogs,Crufts is a dog show. ;-)

Some would state otherwise and the term irish stafford is known within certain circles as a cover for pitbull type.

Then if you have done the research you would know that with the correct breeding and upbringing a pitt is as good around children as a SBT,"Irish" etc.

What scam is that Krusewalker ? The Intercontinental Kennel Club has been about for 30 years!!!

It's misleading though isn't it ?

Especially when Irish Staffords are advertised as IKC,as some people think they are Irish Kennel Club registered when they are not.

yes, that will be the one

a point phil's recent post can show.

of course, the fact that both organisations have IKC as abbreviations could also be just a coincidence ;-)

This may be slightly off topic but i know the blue gene in , staffs, pits etc came from the now extinct blue paul terrier but where did the blue gene come from in other non bull breeds???

That is most likely a myth made up to sell more magical blue pups down from magical breeds of old lol

A think ur wrong if you do research on the bull breeds which have blue colouring or the blue paul itself you will find out that it was the because the blue paul terrier was bred with staffs etc and eventually took to america by early settlers and thats why you find the blue colouring in pits and staffs etc

The blue paul in my opinion never had a big enough gene pool to add all the blue recessive gene into the staffs and pits of today, It's supposedly a mastiff trait!! and also the blue coat in the pure game bred american pitbull terrier is hard to find and frowned upon by true dogmen as they know 90% of the time it came from an outcross but there are the occasional few aswell as tri colour.

I honestly would say take the blue poll info with a massive pinch of salt.

End of the day it's just a diluted black coat, and that's all it is...

Yes the blue gene is passed down from the Mastiff I have done quite a lot of research into this at the moment.