Liver/Gold GSD Discussions

oh yes i certainly do but that uneven on one hip ?reputable breeders would never do it ever !Icemead breed for colour not health thats for sure

I Myself would like to know what they have to hide?

lets just say the lines they use are not the healthiest,very inbred indeed

Why are they getting rid of Bow then ??????

If you have used these high scoring dogs you are as bad as they are.

There are lots of super GSDs around with characters to die for with a pedigree full of low scoring dogs.

There is no excuse whatsoever in breeding from GSDs with scores about the breed mean of 19 & orthopedic specialists(like the vet who does my hip X rays)advise breeding from dogs much lower than the mean.

To state that this kennel are a Hip score reducing kennel is a joke. We had a score reducing stud dog(sadly now long deceased)his hips were perfect-scored 0:0=0, he spent the 3 to 9 month period of his life in quarantine kennels-the plates from his hips have been used all over the world not just to show the perfect hip joint, but the perfect pelvic construction. All his scored progeny(nearly all his puppies were scored)all scored lower than the dams,where the dams had a score higher than 1, & equal to or lower than dams who scored 1 or less. now that is a real score reducing stud.

We have never bred from a dog that was not hip scored under the BMS after scoring was introduced & before that that did not have at least a "Breeding Letter"under the previous scheme-which consisted of certificate(equivalent to a score of 2:2=4 or lower), Breeding Letter(equivalent to a score of 3:2 or 2:3 to 4:4) & fail anything over a score of 5:4=9 or 4:5=9 or either hip scoring over 4(ie 5:0=5)

Breeding for non standard colour &/or coat length will always result in the quality of the dogs construction being lowered & a narrowing of the gene pool.

GSDs should not just be bred for the phenotype but should always be bred for the genotype.

Why do the dogs named on the site as breeding stock not have their actual KC names & BVA/KC hip scores shown ?? If "Bow" was bred in the USA why is his registered name shown with the UK KC Kennel name first ??? & why does the name not appear on the KC Health Test Search ?????????

Firstly no bitch should be bred from before the age of 2 in most breeds(there are breeds like Cavaliers in which this should be older)

No dog should be used at stud before all available health testing is done-both clinical & DNA(& again in some breeds like Cavaliers a male should be at least 5 years of age before being bred from)

No bitch needs to have more than 3 litters in a life time & should never be bred from back to back & preferable with at least 18 months between litters. This does depend on the size of the litter & the bigger the litter the longer gap should be.

No bitch should be bred from over 8 years of age when the litter is due.

All breeding dogs & bitches & their offspring should be permanently identified & also DNA profiled.

Also all breeds like GSDs, Great Danes, Labradors, Golden Retrievers BCs, Rottweilers, Dobermanns, etc should have a 5 generation pedigree of hip scored ancesters & at least one generation elbow scored(more for some breeds)

Any breed that has a known eye condition should be either clinically tested normal or DNA screened normal if a DNA test is available(of be DNA normal through parentage)& the 5 generation pedigree should also be all clinically tested normal.

A dog with more than 4 points difference between R & L hip should not be bred from especially if in the same areas, the last 6 boxes on the score sheet should be 0.
A dog with an uneven score goes on to produce high and uneven scores, some times it skips a generation but it always comes back through the line.
I hope no one is trying to say it is trauma, my 0:0 male as recently this year had severe trauma and his hips along with his spine and pelvis have been re-xrayed and his hips at 5 year old are still perfect, no sign of DJD

Hi all. Just came across this site and this particular thread regarding Icemead.
I can honestly say I have no complaints regarding Icemead at all, being that one of my shepherd's is from there; and what can I say...she's simply perfect! She is not inbred, and her pedigree is pretty good!
As well, I have met the Icemead dog's and they were of a fantastic nature when I met them, and in great condition; And I cannot fault them in any way, shape or form.

Do you actually know what is in your dogs pedigree ? Have you had it professionally checked for hereditary conditions ? I suggest that you have it done. The above kennel have produced epileptic dogs plus other health concerns, there are epileptic producers in all the pedigrees used by this breeder. They breed for colour.

...how would you know this, and have you evidence to prove this?! No, I have not had her professionally checked for hereditary conditions, and thus I find no need to, as she is healthy. To start looking for and diagnosing my dog with neurological deficits and whatever else you want to throw in there, when she shows no clinical signs is preposterous. I appreciate your concern, but I need not your suggestions regarding my dog.
I stand by my word regarding Icemead, and I believe Icemead bring diversity to the breed.

I find it interesting that the majority of dogs on this site are not referred to by their KC registered name so there is no way of checking their Hip scores on the KC Health test finder.

Nothing came up when I put in Icemeads Mr Copperbottom either!

This breed need healthy lines and dogs , not diversity.
Hips and elbows should be scored with LOW scores only be used .
Reputable breeders do not breed from lines which have produced illness and terrible hereditary conditions .

Breeders that do not put on KC names with full health test results including pedigrees on sites usually have something to hide.

Try Icemeads Mr.Copperbottom in your search.

Again how do you know that Icemead breed illness and terrible hereditary conditions in their dogs?!
Libel comes to mind...

I have to disagree, but I believe diversity is needed in the breed, due to the fact I have experienced it with one of my other shepherd's, who comes from good, healthy lines; yet is far from healthy.

Ok so got his hip score.

Neither of his parents were health tested
of his progeny (39 puppies from 5 litters) only 5 have been hip scored with scores ranging between 10 and 40!

None of his siblings have been health tested either.
He has not been screened for HC either.

http://jodarkskigermanshepherds.webs.com/jodarkskiboys.htm

OMG this dog has sired 107 puppies from 13 litters of which 8 puppies have been hip scored ranging from 10 - 57.

TBF the bitch comes from health tested parents and has acceptable scores as does her progeny.

Not sure where diversity comes in when a stud dog has sired over 100 puppies though?

This doesn't surprise me at all as when he came into the house to meet Jess, all he wanted to do was mount her (which she took a great dislike to). Literally, no sniffing to say hi or anything, just straight into his "job"

The above dog has sired epileptic dogs, that is fact.
His father sired several another fact. Pedigree researchers have the pedigrees sent in by the owners of the affected dogs , yet another fact.

The dog you mention should not be used for breeding his hip score is 5/32 (37) high and uneven hips go on and produce the same it may miss a generation but always comes back with a vengeance.
in the limited number scored 5 out of 39 proves this 4/23, 21/3, 28/12, 4/6, 7/6