Old fashioned straight backed GSD's Controversial

Very interesting indeed I believe In Germany, before two German shepherd dogs can be bred together they have to be certified in Schutzhund, a course that determines the strength and character of the breed.Is this still true ?

is it also true that working GSD in Germany dont have the sloping back ?

and
what is acceptable colouration , black and tan, pure black and or white (i believe that is a fault )
So much variation in just one breed, why?

ok, so they need a slight slope but why do some look like their back end is about to collapse like the ones on the clip and the winning one was the worst!

The Weisser Schweizer Schäferhund as a pronounced wither and long sloping croup.
Whereas the Ciobănesc Românesc Carpatin as only a slight pronounced wither and the BEAUCERON wither is termed as 'quite visible', the Polish Lowland sheepdog is termed as 'Well accentuated'. It is these differences amongst other points that distinguishes one type of sheepdog from another.

Black with reddish-brown, brown, yellow to light grey markings. Solid black or solid grey. Greys with darker shading show a black saddle and mask.
The colour white is not accepted. Blues/Livers etc are genetic faults and lack correct pigmentation ie dont have black nose/lips/nails/black tip to tail so again not acceptable for breeding.

heres duke, he has a slight slope





sorry not good pictures i know

Yes for the first part of your question to be shown over a certain age must have a minimum working qualification but it doesnt just have to be SchH it can be any other ie HGH.
No to the second part of your question not when in show stance.

Here is a European work line achieving its show grading

heres the dog in stance albeit slightly over stretched

heres the kennel he is from
http://www.schaeferhunde-ddr.de/

There are very few true roached backed dogs around and it is a fault that as been around since the acceptance of the breed, before the different regional variations were interbred.
The problem with those breeders that breed just for colour and coat, they dont care that they have epilepsy/dwarfism etc in their lines and continue to breed from affected lines plus they are very inbred some with full sibling matings (albeit from different litters)

Thank you very much a knowledgeable person indeed.
Have a good 2010.

So can I clarify that if a GSD was being described as a rare blue it shouldnt be used for breeding, my army mate keeps using that term and as I know nothing about them would like to be able to give him a reply.

my kinda dogs!!!!!

No they shouldnt be used for breeding they should be castrated/spayed sold to a pet home for a lot less than a standard GSD and removed from the gene pool.

Heres a bitch in show stance from the Anrebri Kennel in Czech
http://www.george-k9.com/foto/prodej/xandie_anr/xandie_anr12.jpg

if link doesnt work copy and paste into your browser

Well it goes to show what I know about it. This dogs spine looks curves like it has wedge shaped vertebrae.

This is what I would call a working dog: i.e. one that works for its living.

This young dog is a police dog searching a building for hidden suspects.

Same dog jumping.

I've been reading this thread with interest...never having owned a GSD I don't know hardly anything about them...I have a friend who is really into them and she has told me previously that different breeders breed different types, ie.e some like the slope back whereas others like the straight back, (which she also calls the old fashioned type).

What I'm wondering is are the straight backed type inferior or is it just down to personal preference? I've heard the odd tale of those with the sloping lines having horrendous hip scores etc., because they have been bred to have the exaggerated look...merely hearsay, I don't know of any line or breeder in particular.

As Joedee mentioned about the setters being stacked I thought I would say I agree with her, when judging the setters we should also expect them to finish their run with a free stand so as to assess how they really are made..it is so easy for clever handlers to completely remove a dippy back or extend the neck to look like it is longer than it really is. The same can be said for trimming as you can disguise a multitude of faults with scissors...but thats another topic

Well... I know the German line is `the best` and I know the show dogs are la creme de la creme and I know the people who breed judge and show them are the experts and professionals.......
but I still prefer my sort!
This my first in 1973. She wouldn`t have won any prizes either...but she did me just fine.

Good point you make Sheree...

I think, no matter how a dog is "shown" be it stacked/baited/free stood.. correct conformation will out in the run/trot /walk around the ring..also, as you say at the end of the "show" the dog will be expected to stand in its natural stance for a final go over by the judge.

You can hide faults in the line up by clever handling, /grooming , but you cant hide any on the move or in a final stand!!

Going back to the video at Manchester, the first dog was hindered in the trot, he was poorly handled, and as such the dog was not allowed to trot up correctly, the second dog (winner ) on the other hand was allowed to move freely round the ring, showing of his movement with little effort... you could imagine that dog doing the work he was bred for , for hrs on end. if you take a closer look at the dogs standing round the ring, you will also see most while resting will be stood in the "show" stance, ,maybe not as polished as in the ring, but for me, it says that is the most natural /comfortable stance for them.

They are not my breed so am limited on knowledge for them, but I would assume bad hips will not be connected to the sloping back type, as from what I have read, on the net and here... the conformation of the breed ( back end) is such to absorb the pressure of the work it will be doing, rather like shock absorbers on a car! , taking the pressure of other joints, hence , negative hip problems??

My thoughts would be , bad hips would be down to the same as any other breed, breed from bad hips you get bad hips.... as well as other factors (environmental)

Aww she is lovely. I know what I prefer as well.;-) Whose to say that all the experts and professionals are right? IMO the old type certainly had a more normal walk. Wonder what the dogs think?;-)