Irish Staffordshire terrier facts vrs myths Discussions

Sorry but isn't that a bit illegal now :?

I can understand your concerns, but think for one moment... this forum is seem by thousands of people, do we really want a thread to be only contributed too, by morons, who have hard dogs.. giving off a false picture of a wonderful breed the SBT"""


I think we can stand being called, names and being accused of not knowing anything... IF we can educate those who come to look here, that these people aare NOT the voice of Dogsey.

The more Voices that understand and own the breed come forward, the better...

One of our more serious aims it to educate...

Please dont let the wrong message dominate the thread!!

Totally agree with this.

Following this thread with interest-----if there was a prize for ignorance, bad language and general stupidity this poster would be a strong contender.

Luckily there are some sensible owners of these great dogs who know how to put their point over without being rude and who know how to enjoy their dogs without wanting them to kill other animals illegally.

rune

You are right of course. My problem here is that I have a hard job maintaining a rational conversation when confronted with people who are, at best helping to contribute to the further decline of my breed and at worst are causing suffering to many, many animals.

Weight pulling etc I have no problem with and I'm happy to see healthy staffies being stimulated like this but the fact that no one has come out and flatly satted that they don't use thier dogs for badger lamping or dog fighting conearns me. Of course, I wouldn't accuse everyoner with a pitbull or a ISBT (whatever that is ) with being a supporter of dog fighting, in fact, I wouldn't accuse 1% of Pit owners of supporting fighting. However,the fact that dog fighting and badger baiting have been alluded to by some people but never denied does concearn me as I don't want to have an online discussion with those sorts of people. As my dad always says, its no good getting into a battle of wits with an unarmed man...

Most of us dogsey members accept the fact that ISBT is a veiled reference to a pitbull a pitbull cross or a fighting dog of some kind. Combined with the collective priase being heaped onto famous fighting dogs and thier breeders and the serious lack of respect dished out to anyone who does not own on of these bloodlines I feel that I am trying to talk to people who have such a diffrent concept of what makes a person a dog lover as to make me want to scream. We've had the term "game" bandied about alot here, what does that mean? Its the ability of a dog to not back down from a fight, to stand up to another dog and fight to the death if need be. I can see no diffrence from a person praising breeding a dog for "gameness" as I can from these idiots who are strutting through my local park with a badly neglected, badly bred staffy who will in all likleyhood suffer years of abuse before ending up in either a rescue or in a carrier bag at the bottom of a canal. In my view, people who refuse to let go of the history of the staffy are the reason for BSl today.

My own view as to how we can improve this breed? Dye them all pink and make them wear fluffy bows and ribbons. Maybe they wouldn't appeal so much to the knuckle draggers then.

*One a side note, my staffy still looks good wearing bows and ribbons, he also looks good in his Doggles*

I'm concered with the highlighted bits too, and I hope that the dogs don't end up suffering if this gets read buy certain people, I would hope that the people who mentioned this will come and deny it, as its the dogs that suffer when poeple are like this.

Fabulous post, and so well written,

See you can be extremely informative without having to converse with the macho`s...

Keep it up, reputable knowledge is worth its wieght in gold!!

Well said. And I like the sound of your Dad.
We`ve had a few posts lately about people concerned that their dog was not a proper Staff but a crossbreed which could get them trouble with the DDA. The answer is to avoid the BYB who sell these dogs with laughable claims about their rare colours or red noses (what is it? Rudolph? )
There are thousands of nice Staffies in rescue. There is no point adding to the pool by crossbreeding to attract the wannabe gangstas. `

The funny thing is Jackbox, their dogs could be lovely dogs and that's why they feel the need to go on a forum to posture and look 'ard - because their dogs might be big cuddle monsters (like my staffy)

I seriously do not get what they are trying to say other than ISBT's are 'game' (i.e. will fight to the death) and that one of the posters at least takes part in an illegal activity (badger lamping).

He'd better hope that the police can't get hold of his IP/ISP because I know for a fact that the authorities do look at forums such as this for evidence of dog fighting and other such activities.

right lets get this straight for instance if I had a red dublin strain stafford that was kc registered that was 18 inch at the shoulder and classed as an irish staff then this dog would be illegal as 16 inch plus dogs are winning kc shows?Also for arguments sake I had a psycho bred dog that had 1/8th bull terrier and after 10 generations this dog would be a cross breed as I under stand it a dog is pure bred after 5 gens.Also a bull terrier being a cousin of the staff and after 20,30 years of breeding these dogs also how would the apbt influence be in these dogs as they were not around during the Tessa Mora Trials and they didnt appear untill the late 70s when the irish staffie lads dropped them like hot bricks as they didnt want them, would this show in the DNA as I thought it was impossible to tell the difference through DNA as they are so closely related same for the APBT as DNA has not been that advanced yet.

Also to set the record straight gameness is not a fighting breed thing its not measured on fighting ability,but bravery and there are lots of terriers that are game weatons,fell terriers etc.

From Peta:

Of course, gameness also means drive, determination and courage, but there's no denying that its also a term used to describe fighting ability by many kennels, including Michael Vicks Bad Newz kennels.

On a side note I can see we have skirted around the question again of whether you support dog fighting.

And some light relief, here's my Staffy downplaying his hardman image once again:

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And keeping alert for danger..

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Kingbenny your dog is so handsome.

Here's mine displaying how game she is...that is how game she is to lie in front of the fire with her best pal Bryan:


I wish you could use some punctuation marks Longford. It would make your posts a lot easier to understand as I still don't get what it is you are trying to say.

If the dog was KC registers it would be a Staffordshire Bull Terrier, (born in Dublin).. it may be a poor example of the breed, to tall, to leggy, to fine boned... but if it was from KC registers SBT `s then it would be a Staffie....END OF!!!!!!


Its like saying Boxers born in Dublin are of the Dublin strain:? But they are Boxers , pure and simple, they dont have different strains..

Sorry , you have lost me there:? with your first bit,

No one has said the Staffie or bull terrier , is influenced by the ISBT , its the other way round, the ISBT has been created by the use of other breeds to make it what it is today... a crossbreed


And yes, if you have a dog that is of dubious heritage, and resembles an illegal breed, you will be in danger of having it seized/

Yes of cause , plenty of game working terriers, but the difference is owners dont harp on about their fighting history..

Nor do they mention Badger baiting in regards their gameness!!

Glad it gives you comfort to attempt to make puns out of usernames.

I thought you were supposed to be informing the ignorant dog-loving world about the true ISBT? All I've heard is a load of unsubstantiated hero-worship and attempts to mock members. It's not really informative or helpful. Any questions asked don't seem to get an answer - at least, not a comprehensible one.

I don't read dog aticles in the press really, as I agree, they seem to be written by poorly-informed journalists on the most part. The only time I hear 'Irish staffy' used, is generally in the free-ads. This is why people come to the conclusion that it's a euphemism for pit. There are so many BYB litters of 'Irish staffies' that they probably make up a huge majority of dogs referred to as Irish staffies. Is there any concrete information that can be used to make a distinction between these BYB ISBTs and the 'real' ISBT?

I have never read so much bsht in my entire life!!!....I have tried to answer and air my views as this is a public forum and Ive been told by long standing members here that everybody's views are valid.....all but mine and a few other posters that own the breed so why then the witch hunt? every answer has been twisted by vicious old women trying to make me look like something that I'm not, i mean come on ,chaz asked me why greyhounds were crossed with pitbulls,i explained and to this end I'm now a badger baiter? thats almost laughable.
In the previous post i answered a post concerning kc and working type dogs, simply saying that a lot of working lines were crosses of some sort, the greyhound pitbull cross was just 1 out of about 5 that i mentioned but only this particular cross was picked out ermm i wonder why? what about the ABD cross i mentioned, used in America to hunt wild boar?i suppose that must mean that i too hunt wild boar? just because i know what most working dogs are used for (legal or illegal) doesn't mean that i participate or condone any cruel or illegal activity, i am a family man, i have a family dog which loves and in turn is loved by my 2 kids, my fiancée and me, contrary to the fact that its been stated that I'm an idiot, moron, chav,troll with muscles,and now a badger baiter and dog fighter with out any evidence or inclination by my self to make people think that,i love my children and would never put them in harms way and the same for my dog.. i would NEVER put my dog in the pit or condone any form of harm that comes to any dog ,i find it interesting how certain individuals can say as many insulting things as they want and make false accusations and stereo type anybody that takes a real intrest in their breeds past, present and future can do so with out a warning,in fact gaining support from the masses of bored house wifes that frequent this site, yet Ive had 2 warnings for rising to this stupidness.This is the last thing I'm going say on this subject,the ISBT is a SBT exported to Ireland back when the SBT was performance bred,Irish breeders kept on breeding for performance sometimes crossing them with EBTs or any bull and terrier that done well in the legally held fox and badger trials, the SBT as we know it here in england was watered down by dog fanciers and the kennel club into what we know today........believe what you will it matters not to me, but if you really are so called dog lovers, you would not show such public disdain on public forums basically putting people who own ISBT at risk of having there family pets taken away and destroyed because you believe the hype, in fact you must obviously hate APBTs as you keep saying that the ISBT are one and the same like its a vile thing.U openly support bullsht B.S.L were as I'm a strong believer in any dog/breed is only as good as its owner.
I do have a life, one that only allows me only a short period of time to sit at my laptop, unlike some of you whom it seems can only gain some sense of self worth by spending all there time putting down other human beings on public forums out of nothing more than vindictiveness, i think you may all be suffering from communal P.M.T what ever the case I'm done with this subject now, you maybe happy to know i will not answer any more posts regarding this subject. p.s longford it seems i cant send or receive PMs i would love to hook up with you and talk bloodlines and such.

Lets get one thing straight even if you own a KC registered Staffordshire Bull Terrier that is 18 inches at the withers then it can still be seized as an illegal dog in the UK.

The definition of an illegal dog is a pit type which means it does not really have to be a pit bull as that would be too difficult to prove, so the dog just has to have 95% of the breed discription, essentially just needs to look like one.

I have no problem with Irish Staffords other that its name, most are crosses of what ever is handy to breed together and sold as something they are not, especially if they are blue.

Speculation with a bit of sexism added in for good measure. Bet you're older than me too. Have you any scans of old papers? Old photos, articles, pedigrees? And if you can prove it's not a pit, and totally distinct, maybe you should have told the idiots that put together the DDA? If you have this information, did/are you doing enough to try and change it?

You have to see that the evidence we have suggests that the ISBT is a cover up for a pit or a name for a leggy staffy, commonly advertised in the freeads. There may be another type of ISBT but it doesn't change the fact that it is a term used by BYBs to get around BSL. I don't understand why you are getting so irate? Writing incomprehensible posts, making personal remarks about members, and stating that members of this forum are putting people at risk of having their dogs seized is not the way to get people to listen to what you have to say.

Thereby proving that good things CAN happen if we wish hard enough for them,

Common sense and decent caring owners prevail.

rune

Well we better get down to the kc show and start the measuring then as I stated there are many kc dogs that have made ch status that are over 16 inch one thing you cannot do is alter genectics the old standard was 18 inch at the withers for a dog and the new standard states a desired height of 16 inch but 17/18 inch would be acceptable and what makes me laugh the police have neither the time all resources to round up dogs that dont fit the current quote SHOW STANDARD as we all know in all breeds the working stuff and show stuff vary good example would be the gsd.

Also why would a dog of 18 inch with some of the best blood lines and highly sought after by stafford enthusiasts be a poor example of the breed,and why would it not be classed as an irish stafford if it is a part of the whole picture of the irish staffords as they are all mainly from the same dogs?

Also a cross bred dog is only classed this for the first 5 generations after that it is classed as a pure breed there are many kc breeders that add an out cross so many genes so that they put a bit of hybrid vigeour back into there lines