Buying a Wolf Dog Cross - (split from Mahooli's standard thread) Controversial

Oh my good god its old news, I havn't had problems with my dogs for months and I didn't bully it out of them either I trained them!
Dumbass

Er and you said "if" not never!

didn't say i was getting one now though did i?

Dumbass Yeah i am arent i?

akna could i ask your opinion on the differences between CWD X and Saarloos x, which would prove the better home pet?

sc csv crosses in my oppinion are certainly these days very stable. My csv boy is 2 next week, he does everything i ask of him...perhaps a little slower than my other dogs but he does it. We have ducks, rabbits and a parrot which have never been chomped! His obedience is instant and he behaves well. He has been to shows, ringcraft, shopping centres, parks, dog races (sleddog rallys) etc but that doesnt mean in the wrong hands that it could be different! Whether its 100% or 10% i do not think these dogs are for the novice owner.

Neither! Pet is not the operative word! I find the csv far more outgoing and sharp along the lines of the gsd or belgian shepherd the saarloos has i would say a much higher level of intelligence but more reserved. I believe both these dogs have a real ability in many areas and should be used so. No mental stimulation and you get problems.

Point 1) Perhaps if you changed the diet of your dogs -feed them on lemons and lavender for example you could save a fortune of those awful plug in air freshners; worked a treat for me.
2) Ah the old ego, just not possible to keep one of these and a 3/4 saarloos x in the same house.
3) Saves a fortune on hot water bottles and central heating.

Finally please do not trivialise this thread as its reserved for personal insults...

Wolfdogowner,

I apologise for my clearly childish behaviour. Far too much late night Dogsey for geezer

However, I absolutely refuse to be lectured on fart tripyness by someone who clearly has limited experience in the field!!

Do you have any proof your methods work?

neither are Rotties, Akitas , Ridgebacks etc.

ah these thread do give me a good ole giggle.

i have owned many different breed of dogs and loved them all completely. however when i was given the opportunity to own a saarloos cross, this has given me a whole different opinion and outlook to the dog.
they are amazing and the most inteligent breed i have ever met. they give you something else. they are remarkable.
indeed they are not for the novice owner,and also believe you have to match their intelligence, which is why they may not suit everyone who wants a dog.
until you experience it i believe you will not truly get what people are saying about the cross breed and infact the pure wolfdogs.

Hi Banji
I could take the words Saarloos x out your sentance and replace it with Collie x and it would still read true. Everybody thinks their choice of 'breed' 'type' has something special that no other can match

Wolfdogowner and Geezer - I didn't read your posts last night - but you've started my day with a smile

Akna and Dogloverr - I agree with what you are both saying.

Most large breeds are not suitable for novice owners. Every dog owner has to learn from experience but it is foolish to start with a large, strongwilled dog of any breed.

Akna is also right in her comment about 'pets' - these particular dogs are highly intelligent working breeds. The emphasis being on 'working'. If you want these dogs it has to be for the right reason, not just to keep them as a lap dog and be seen parading around with a 'wolf'. These dogs are at their best when using their brains or stamina.

If you get any breed from a particular group its got to be in the dogs interest to use its working ability.

Even doing obedience or agility for fun stretches a dog's mind and gives them a focus. I will be doing either or both of these with my czech but am also looking into search and rescue - as I think she would be good at it as she has the capability to think for herself.

However, if you don't give these dogs the opportunity to 'work' then I could quite honestly see them being a problem.

sorry im coming into this a bit late,

Sandra, what age is your czech?

have you started any formal training yet?

Just a quickie before i go off to get drowned by wet dogs...... I have a csv cross he is 2 next weds. I first saw him at 3 days old and then every week till i picked him up at 9 weeks. I travelled 416 miles round trip everytime i went to see him. I started training as soon as i got him, travelling in the van with the others, going outside to toilet, playing with toys, crate training, carrying him when i went out to walk the other dogs and then on the floor on a lead after jabs. He started my puppy classes at 13 weeks and ringcraft at 5 months. At 12 mths he was hip scored and eye tested (both good) and started agility with my 11 year old son. He also then started cani cross running and running beside a bike (also with my son and myself). He has been used as a stud at the age of 16 months. I did attend some shutzhund training and he was very good at obedience and agility but when it got to the holding part and bite work i was a bit apprehensive of the way the training was being done so i stopped that but we still do weekly ringcraft, obedience, cani cross and bikejorring and also he runs with Canadian Eskimo Dogs and Huskys in harness on a rig. He is on the Kennel Club activities register and will be at YKC with my son so he is kept pretty active i suppose. Most days as i run my own business he walks with me and my other dogs and several clients dogs that i walk. Oh the rest of the time he sleeps lol

Some of us know exactly what you mean;-)

Well said in every respect.

The fact remains that it is a question of ethics. There is no good reason to cross the wolf dogs. Or have I missed a fundamental reason, that makes it not only ethical but a positive move for either the CWD or the SWH , and what evidence is there to back this up?

I do indeed have proof of course. I discovered this method when I put my house up for sale and the first viewer complained that it smelt of dogs. Since it now smells of lemons and lavender I have had my first offer. Though i think the prospective purchaser was slightly put off by finding out that 'central heating' meant a huddle of wolfdogs in the kitchen.

Now can we please get back to the mud slinging?

I don't think anyone has claimed that crossing the CWD or SWH has or will bring any benefit to either of the two breeds. It has been argued that crossing them with the NI could bring a benefit to the NI and I guess the validity of that claim rests with the individuals belief in the soundness of the NIs being crossed. There would be no excuse in crossing a wolfdog to any NI that had problems in its background.

There are also those that have claimed that crossing to the NI somehow makes the SWH or CWD more 'manageable' but I think this is just an excuse as these breeds can be difficult for very different reasons and do require a sympathetic or experienced owner. They are specialised breeds: if you don't like them as they are then don't get one. I fell in love with the temperament but the looks are a great bonus. The real reason they are being cross bred is for looks. By adding them to the NI it changes the look and seemingly guarantees a new 'wolfier' look to the NI which has a less consistant standard.

After a year or two of crossing we have dogs being bred with part Saarloos and part CWD: the temperament of these dogs will probably be fine but this willy nilly crossing seems just to be 'we do it because we can' and then stick a few quid on the price.

The real point is that neither the CWD nor (especially) the Saarloos have been given any kind of chance to be established in the UK. As a Saarloos owner I find it disapointing that 'my' breed has been relegated to a mere admix for experimentation after so much work has been done to create the breed.

If the SWH or CWD had been allowed to be established properly then no one would think twice about a cross bred being advertised for sale; I have had several cross breds myself and never considered them detrimental to the founder breeds; but then GSDs, Dobermans and Great Danes etc are relatively common and established breeds.

While I accept that the cross breds are here to stay; why cant we put a little more effort into the original breeds and establish them properly in the background?