Wolfdog - How I'd do it! General Chat

They have correct bites!!!!! They do have long noses,but this could easily be bred aliittle shorter & they do not look like collies at all

ok quick reply to shona's question on sable GSD's. If you put two sables together you get NO black and tan. Sable is dominant over that colour so puppies from a breeding like that would consistantly only produce sable. You can get blacks from sables depending on their history..for example my girl is sable but she carries the black gene on both sides, so if i put her to a dog also carrying the black gene there's a high risk of her producing blacks. There is no risk of her producing whites because there is no white behind her on either side. So again its looking into the dogs background. Inkliveeva's gsd she mentioned was probably put to a black and gold known to carry white and thats how all of those colours came out.thats basic GSD coat colour for ya

Yes curly tails would be a problem but they have good dense coats and small ears. I don't see any other breed that would be suitable for reducing ear size.
I looked at the Malinois as a possibility but whilst it would produce longer legs it has large ears for it's size and no substance.

Agree as I said in the beginning not somthing I would do. However, you are not going to stop people doing things like this or producing crosses etc so at least give people some sort of foundation as to what they should do to do it properly.
Entirely agree about the vast numbers of puppies that will be produced to get the end product which I mentioned at the end of my post.

I would use a Chow and Elkhound not just for ear size but density of coat as well. However curly tails will be an issue as you said. Also blue tongues may well be produced using Chows although that could probably be bred out as the main base would be GSD. I don't think Huskies have much to offer as they have large ears and have finer bone so would not be needed.
The co-owning bit is for control and to prevent dogs being used 'incorrectly' as it is more difficult (although not impossible) to try and do your own thing when you do not own the dog in it's entirety! I would hope to be able to kepp the best of the best myself (all hypothetically obviously!)
There needs to be a watertight co-ownership agreement between all relevant parties. This agreement should be drawn up by a solicitor I think.

That is why I have put in DNA testing for colour so you don't get any surprises!

Yes tails will be a problem, as they would with the Mals as well although to a lesser degree. I disagree that testing for luxating patella shouldn't be done as I have heard of large breeds getting it and surely better safe than sorry. It's a simple grading done by any vet without anesthetic so no harm done.
Better prevent at the beginning than try and sort out halfway through!

I think the biggest issue with creating a new breed will be the vast numbers of dogs having to be produced to ensure a viable gene pool and to achieve your goal. A responsibility that should not be undertaken lightly!
Becky

Interestingly....Husky-Shar-pei X (don't ask!) tend to produce dogs who look very similar to Shiba-inus!
(I have seen 4-from 2 different litters - and they are all very similar)

The reason I said about the bite is that with the BS having a rather long nose/ muzzle, it could compromise the bite, facially for me they look very rough collie, only my opinion...
this is a great thread I am dissapointed it is only at page 3 I've been thinking about it all night...sad I know

The only shar pei x's I have seen were staffie shar pei, prodominately shar pei look, coat but as if they'd had a good iron, only a little wrinkle on the fore head...

Adding in chow, would they have a black / blue tongue ?

not sure about the elkhound and what it would add that wasn't in the mal, IMO elkhounds too small for me

I love the look of BS, but not so keen on the laekenois (sp) and prefer over the GSD

Loving this thread. I'd use Swedish for my elkhound input. They have a bit more of the wolfy look, curly tails would still be a problem though. There also not the easiest breed to get hold of, as I don't believe there're any in the uk yet.

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Yes I did look at them as they are also larger but as far as I'm aware not available in the UK.
Becky

Yes I like them too, was looking at them a year ago and there wasn't any in the UK then. Very nice dogs though

What about the armenian gamprs for bone and coat hopefully height too...with Canadian white GS, which would help ears, also both breeds have good tail set and a Samoyd, I know the latter could compromise the tail, but has smaller ears so hopefully more likely to correct the ear size, 2 dilute dogs in the mix would hopefully help with the lighter eye...and a little salt and pepper to taste lol

Samoyed also has a long coat so not desirable. I'm not sure where you are getting this dilute coat = light eye thing. Browns have lighter eyes but they aren't dilutes. White's aren't dilutes either so I'm not entirely sure where this information is coming from.
Becky

Well its like everything else, we read things and some stuff sticks others don't, it was on an eye genetic thingy I read...no harm in trying it, the pups I bred are all lighter eyed, mum had yellow eyes, dilute in colour, dad had light amber and he was white, so it has made sense from my litters perspective.

but what do you mean by dilute. Dilute in genetics terms is lightening of another colour so dilute on black would be blue and dilute on brown would be fawn/cream or isabella. Whites/creams/apricots/yellow etc are not dilutes!
Becky

I'm not sure how I would describe it as I would think if a dog was born white and the usual colours were say greys, reds, silver ect, wouldn't the white dog then be dilute ? what would it be for a very light silver, what would that dilute be ?
Are you saying that say my fawn shar pei for instance was red backed but lighter towards her legs would be a dilute of the fawn ?

Right just had a quick read myself about it, so my white dog would actually have been called a cream dilute because of the tinges of red sometimes visible on his coat...right, sorry just thinking to myself lolllll !, and there seems to be a confusion over grey so light silver could be diluted grey ? still both dilute dogs with light eyes in litter, so still makes sense, a lot of white GSD have light eyes too, but they are not really white either so they to would either be cream dilute or apricot dilute...

A white dog is not is dilute. It's white, cream dogs aren't dilute unless they are genetically brown and dilute! Just because it is a light coat colour doesn't mean it is a dilute colour.
Becky

Sorry Becky but don't entirely agree, but thats genetics for you lol

I'd like to change my Samoyd if I may to either shikoku inu, has smaller ears, or the kai inu, whos tail isn't as curly...

My view is based on genetics and light coloured coats are not all dilutes. FACT! Completely different gene!
Becky

thanks for explaining that

Not read the last couple of pages..but picked up on the white dog light eye thing??

How does that explain Sammies?? they only come in white/biscuit and have the most gorgeous deep brown eyes..all of them..