Northern Inuit and Ute Discussions

I know they are now separate breeds/types and I am not getting into any arguments about breed/type. But if NI and Ute started as the same dogs what are the differences now. And is there any reason not to bring both breeds/types back into being one. Reading the breed standards for both, is a bit like spot the difference, eye colour is one.

This is Amber NI, she usually has a thicker coat but is moulting

Good thread Ali - not sure if we are spotting the difference or trying to spot a 'type'.

Here's Wicca:


Here's Luna:


Here's Echo:


Here's Timber:


Here's Sky:

Here are some heads to compare:

Sky


Echo


Luna


Timber


Pagan


Wicca


Amber

I don't think a true 'type' has been established yet as I believe both breed standards are of a relatively new origin and therefore in the past there was nothing to aim for in a breeding programme.
Hopefully this will change, together with increased health testing and maybe some dudicious outcrossing, now a standard has been set and hopefully better record keeping things can now move a pace.
I wish I had the time and money to create my own 'new breed'. I find the whole process fascinating!
Becky

It would be nice if they could all just come together under one umbrella of 'wolf lookalike dogs'
This way there is not a 'fixed' type to aim for as everyone prefers a different look anyway.
It could incorporate

Wolfdogs and Wolfhounds
NI
BI
Ute
Tamaskan

and crosses of all of the above. None of the above groups can possibly attain recognition status with the exception of the wolfhounds and wolfdogs, so why not put them all under the heading of a type of dog? they all started out from the same dogs.

Why do you think they will never be recognised? A few people have said this but I don't see it as impossible!
Becky

Its impossible because the KC needs accurate records going back to the original matings. The Czech wolfdog and Saarloos wolfhund are able to do this. Accurate records have been kept of all matings and show the lines that were discontinued for whatever reason. The NI can't do that - even the pedigrees of certain dogs don't agree.

It might be possible if new records were started from now - all dogs DNA profiled and accurate records kept - but I can't see that happening.

I don't think there is enough breed 'type' to call it a breed = imo it is a type of dog - a wolf lookalike - or a variation on a theme.

With the NI, BI, Utes and Tamaskans.. I think its because the KC would need fastidious record keeping from the first dogs... and as we all know that didn`t happen... not for probably the first 10 years of these dogs being created... which of course means all pedigrees beyond 3 or 4 gens back are total codswhollop.

Edited to add.. posted at the same time as Sandra.

But record keeping can start from any point such as now. So it isn't impossible, just a very long way off!
However, if the 'thinking' has fundamentally changed in that they are just a wolf lookalike then a breed would never be established because it simply wouldn't matter and than I'd have to ask, what is the point? It would be producing dogs for the sake of producing them.
Going back to the OP there would be little difference in the beginning until everyone bred to the standard they so wish to do so. However, it is not an overnight thing and I wouldn't expect any type to be established for at least 5 generations.
Becky

Hi Becky
I could be wrong but i dont think most owners care that they are unrecognised, i certainly dont.

I would have liked the NI to have been KC recognised, because that would have put a stop to the different factions, but IMO I don't think it is going to happen

I understand that but I was just picking up on the point that some people were saying that they would never be recognised and I don't believe that. I think they could be but it's a long way off!
Becky

I don't think I worded it very well in my first post, I meant the difference between NI and Ute by reading their breed standards, and in the flesh, pictures of what a Ute looks like and pictures of what an NI looks like and the differences between the two. As reading the NI and Ute standards they seem to describe the same dog.

Gorgeous pics of your dogs, and I do see your point, they all look different, Wicca and Amber look nothing like each other.

I have found two dog pics Tia and Tiegan, on the Olderhill site. http://www.northerninuit.net/Stud.aspx

I think Amber looks more like a female version of them, she doesn't look anything like her mum Echo or her sister Wicca

Tiegan and Tia are both bitches.. the olderhill site is all screwy, Teigan is Ambers great grandmother.. Tia & Shanook`s mum, i think Shanook, Freya & Blade get a lot from her to.

ahh I thought they didn't look like males lol thought it was me, just saw the pics and thought they look like Amber

so no wonder Amber looks like them, gran and great gran, cos she definitely doesn't look like her mum

But we are 20 generations plus down the line in most cases - so why aren't NI further ahead? They should be breeding to type by now - but they aren't.

That's because no-one was breeding to any set standard. Anyone with an NI wanted to get in on the breeding lark, and when that happens there isn't a hope for type to be established. Hence if anyone wants to start a breed then they need to have a clear idea, and preferably a breed standard, BEFORE any dogs are bred and then breed to that!
Becky

I looked at Olderhill this is the funniest NI I ever seen looks more GSD

It would probably help if they would stick to a standard but it changes so much, twice i think in the last year.

Personally I believe that the Olderhill NI's do have wolf in them, you only have to look at the head type, ear size and colour of the eyes to realise that.

and that's why very few look the same. If they want them to look like wolves then the breed standard really needs to describe a wolf lol!
Becky