Hip Dysplasia (in Beagles) - A KC Cover Up or Not? Controversial

In various threads I have mentioned that breeders, the breed club and the KC all maintain that the beagle is a healthy breed and that no health screening is considered necessary. The KC don't even list HD as an recommended health test in their Accredited Breeder Scheme. This always results in people arguing that this is in fact not the case.

Greyhawk responded with this:

Those minority of breeders that do hip score are almost certainly not breeding only with hip scored parents as with only 45 scored beagles in the country that would leave them with too small a gene pool.

So why do the KC see fit to rule that HD screening is unnecessary in the breed. Is the problem with the pedigree world much bigger than we think? Can we trust the KC and the breed clubs and breeders to keep our breeds safe? Is there perhaps a reason why they've come to this apparently illogical conclusion?

Two things that open my mind to the *possibility* that HD screening really isn't as important as it might seem:

1. I have searched long and hard since getting my first pup to see if I could find any beagles in my country (Scotland) with HD. I mix with lots of beagle owners and breeders through breed clubs and other activities and have only ever managed to track down a single Beagle with symptoms of HD. This particular dog had a slight limp, but according to it's owner no pain. Just recently I saw this dog and it had been put on a diet and given an exercise regime - all trace of the HD was gone. I didn't ask whether the hips had been scored and HD confirmed. In a breed that is prone to obesity you'd think there would be more than one suffering HD symptoms. Of course, I don't know all beagles, but I'd surely hear of a decent percentage of sufferers because of the circles I mix in.

2. I found an article (that I will try and track down again) that reported on a study of a colony of pack beagles. Every single one of these beagles had incredibly poor hip scores but not one of them had a single symptom - even in old age. It was concluded that because of the beagles size and build HD wasn't a concern with the breed. (Something like that - I'll find the article to confirm the details).

Now my first thought is why not hip score ALL dogs? Surely it's better to have low hip scores even if HD is never a problem in the breed. You want to keep it that way, right?

But if ALL beagles have high scores then in order to reduce them in the breed you need to rule out a lot of the breeding stock. Which reduces the gene pool significantly and potentially introduces yet more genetic defects into the breed gene pool. This is a justifiable risk in breeds where large numbers of animals are suffering badly. But if no beagles are currently suffering is there a risk of creating problems where previously none exist?

Or is it simply that the picture of our pedigree dogs' health painted by the KC is a lot more optimistic than the reality? Is it the case that contrary to what many breeders and breed clubs insist, they CAN'T be trusted to keep their own house in order?

I suggest ALL Beagle breeders hip score and then there will be a true level aquired. Its nothing to do with the KC, and its clear you have HUGE issues with them, yet still buy 2 KC registered dogs!! BREEDERS need to address the issues.

Exactly.

The KC are a registering body, not the canine police. They ARE doing more to raise awareness about health problems. But it is up to the BREEDERS to do their own research and make their own decisions in regard to health testing.

What do the KC have to do with hip scoring??

Can you explain this please Scarter?

I think that yes there is more to HD than just a score
I have heard from many owners and farmers (online in forums - I dont live in an area where people have even heard of hip scoring) that a dog with v bad hips according to xray can live a life free from symtoms (as far as we can tell - remembering that animals are v good at hiding pain) and it is considered just as - if not more important how the dog is brought up - amount of exercise and weight of the dog

As for narrowing the gene pool, I guess genetisits need to get involved in those breeds that that is a danger with - in breeds with good genetic deversity then it makes sense to try and improve the health the best way we can with the tools we currently have

Certainly, as I said in my opening post:

But if people say it's down to breeders and not the KC then I accept that.

In the case of beagles the breeders say there is no problem of HD in the breed. Presumably they have done their research and made a valid decision - they are the breed experts and final decision makers regarding the health and welfare of the breed. As I've said, I have to admit that I've been unable to find more than one case of HD in the breed in Scotland so that ties in with what the breed club have decided. Also my vet backed up what they said based upon statistics that vets hold on breed related health problems.

Good to know!! My feeling is that these people are very responsible, capable breeders.

That was quick and painless!

We have a spanielX who has confirmed HD - she was very lame and had to have x-rays when younger (due to unrelated problems). When we were told by the vet about it - one of her hips is awful and one is OK. He told us that as long as we kept up her exercise her muscle tone would ensure that it wouldn;t cause her a problem till much later.

Many BC's who have HD have the same issue - I know of 5 with confirmed HD, owners keep up with swimming and proper exercise regime that keeps the muscle tone good and enables the dog to have strength on its back end.

I would imagine that is what happens in the beagle packs....?

ETA.....with any breed I think hip scoring is a good idea - whether suggested by the KC or not.

One poster mentioned that only 45 Beagles have been hip scored in the UK. That is a tiny number of dogs comparatively. As the only way to confirm the diagnose of hip dysplasia is via an x-ray, and that only 45 individuals in the country have ever had this done, it isn't surprising that you have not been able to find any cases of it occurring. How many Beagles have HD that has gone unnoticed or blamed on other joint conditions such as arthritis? probably quite a few.

It certainly is.

Yet they CLEARL state on the association website that its one of 3 diseases most frequently reported! You'd think they would realise what they have written wouldnt you?

Well if people dont publicise it you wont see it will you? Its very clear given the BVA scores there IS a problem, otherwise the scores you see on the list would be very low wouldnt they and certainly not as is listed there.

What stats would these be then? How could they have "access" to any more than that were done vis BVA schemes? they of course cannot whatsoever discuss individual cases because of the data protection act. Any "cases" would be hearsay, and would not be relevant in any genuine study.

Which ones? I think the ones that score are, are these the ones you refer to? In which case I agree.

These stats are from the OFA (Orthopedic Foundation for Animals) which is the US equivalent of the hip scoring system we have in this country:

HIPS 45 704 18.3 79.7

So out of 704 individuals, nearly 20% had abnormal hips.

http://www.offa.org/stats.html#breed

So, Beagles don't exactly come under the category of having perfect hips.

The circles you mix in; could they possibly be circles which a dysplastic beagle would not inhabit? I mean, if it was symptomatic HD, the dog wouldn't really be racing/hill walking/at an agility club - or at shows - even if the owners were keeping exercise up?

Good point, or if it was a badly affected dog or at least one that showed an unsoundness in movement, (not necessarilly pain) I think its fair to say a show person may pass it on having kept it a while.

Found this interesting.

From: THE NORTHERN & MIDLAND COUNTIES BEAGLE CLUB WEB SITE.

To me that suggests that breeders SHOULD be hip scoring, how else can they know which dogs have HD and which ones dont?

The Beagle had a mean score of 18 in 2003, yet in 2008 it has risen to 23!

Beagle.
45 tested, ranging scores 10-71, average = 23

From those stats it would appear the problem is worsening, do you agree Scarter?

So let's just hope there's never a trend for 'Giant Beagles'..

I have a question before I can offer an opinion on those statistics. Perhaps a dumb question. But here goes.

If hip scores determine whether a dog has hip dysplasia (as opposed to the existence of symptoms) then is it the case that all dogs with a score of more than zero have hip dysplasia? If not, then what is the score that determines the dog has the disease?

Does the 'acceptable score' depend upon the size of the breed and the likelihood of the disease to be symptomatic. Or is it just the breed average - in which case a cluster of a few very poor scores would result in an acceptable score that is likely to lead to a deterioration in the breed. Or is there a single 'pass mark' that applies to all breeds?

Who decides what the scoring system is - KC? Breeders? Is there any consistency between breeds?

How exactly does it work. Is anyone able to explain?

Point one, HD is not a diseases in it's self, it just measures the amount that the hip joint differs from the perfect. Dogs and people whose hips are not perfect do not necessarily suffer.

Point two, scoring hips has nothing to do with the KC, they only encourage the scoring if the vets suggest they should.

Third point, think the reason that the Beagle score seems high is because with so few tested those who are will be those whose conformation or movement lead one to suspect there may be a problem and they are therefore tested.

Do agree though that all dogs should be done so that the worse will not be bred because I am sure if Chi and other small dogs were scored then they would return surprising data.

No they dont have dysplasia they dont have absolutely perfect hips, dysplasia is seen in the higher scorers.

No it doesnt depend on the size of the breed, (although bigger dogs do seem to a degree to score higher)Dobermanns have an average of 10 I think, an excellent score, I think it was higher at one point, but breeding from the very low scores has bought the average down producing more healthy dogs. Beagles have more than twice the average score than Dobes.

I "think" its the British Veterinary association that work out the averages, I would expect the breed clubs seek their advice on suitable scores.

You may have to contact the BVA for all those answers as they are the experts in that field.

Well it is a shame then that breeders are refusing to acknowledge there could be an issue. If you look at the BMS scores for all breeds, there are only 10 breeds with a higher BMS than the Beagle

I am also intrigued to know what 'research' they have been doing. It is obviously not hip scoring.

Beagles mean score is way higher than Malamutes aswell..Which breeders say there is no problem?? The BREED CLUB say there is!!!

AND here is a recommended exercise plan from a breeder

How exactly does what work??

they take all scores for the same breed of dog then divide it by the amount od dogs tested..which gives you the mean score which is then the basis of breeding stock scores..(if they are higher than the mean score they shouldn't be used..)
But its worrying that only 45 have been tested in the first place!!

The dogs tested are taken to the vets..the vets then send x rays to BVA they then determine the scores (exactly as they would with any other breed)..

If you look at the OFA system, they give an approximate guide to how the UK scores relate to their scoring system. So a dog with 0 - 4 (on the UK system) would have excellent hips (as long as it had a score of no more than 3 on one hip, so a score of 0:4 would not qualify for excellent hips).

Beagles are at the higher end of Borderline dysplasic (as a whole).

Possibly, but how will we ever know if this is a true representation of the breed or not, this is all guesswork. Looking at the results that have been submitted, the results do not show that Beagles have no problem with HD.

Well a few Bischon Frise have been done (not many granted, but enought to get an average). They have a BMS of 10 with a range of 4 - 19.