Cesar Milan with wolf dog Shadow General Chat

Us, humans, will always try to preserve our life... and we would do everything we could to preserve it... We would bite, claw, kick - anything possible, so we would not die...

So would a dog...

This dog didn't bite CM, it merely gave him a scratch... and of course CM had to pull his sleeve up to show it... That wasn't a dog bite...

I still think the whole thing was set up for television... Poor dog...

I dont think he planned it for TV at all Lene, and the dog would of bitten him far more seriously given the chance. The dog had already seriously bitten its owners and I think another without ANY provokation. As much as I disagree with what he did, its clear having watched ALL the program, that the dog would otherwise be dead if CM hadnt stepped in at all.

i have used one of these collars and they do slacken.there is nothing to stop it slackening unless you are pulling on the collar.
they are however a waste of money and i dont like the purpose it is used for. they are inteneded to have maximum control over the dog with maximun discomfort. however they do not choke the dog unless you apply pressure and it will always slacken when you release the pressure on the lead. which actually contradicts cms way of keep the lead slack and relax while walking the dog, because in order for the collar to work it has to be tense at all times.
it is a waste of money because all it is is a choke collar with a harness which keeps the choke collar behind the dogs ears.
if you want to control your dog with pain then buy a choke collar and put it behind your dogs ears.thats what cm is promoting.
i agree with his calm assertive energy but thats about it.
that works with my dogs and others as they see us pack leaders.
he lost all credability i think with the way he was with that dog.

Then surely a muzzle would be used, if a suspect dog is in such a situation.

I know they do at my vets!!!

The dog sits down many times throughout the situation.. the first time is right after CM kicks it.. the dog reacts, then sits down.. it is not until CM strings him up again he attacks again, the process through the whole exercise is the same... the CM strings it up the dog reacts violently.. each time the dog is trying to get away from the situation and SIT DOWN!! he does so on numerous occasions ,

If you also take a good look , you will see the dog displaying appeasement signals .. when CM has him pinned to the ground... the licking of lips, yet all CM can see is the dogs lipstick sticking out... and goes into a tarraid with his explernation as to why... completey missing the most important thing... the dog was " submitting"

It would have been nice to see CM , point out the submissive signals , at least then some of us antis , as you keep calling us.. (like it is bad word) would be able to see at least he has some understanding of what he professes to be ..a Dog Psychologist.

The fact is, CM took on this dog with a iffy temperament.. one by all accounts was likely to turn and attack without any reason.. I have not seen the whole episode but as others have said the dog has bitten unprovoked before.

Now giving that history.... only a fool would go to rehabilitate such a dog with such aggressive (on CM part) methods.

Surely any trainer worth their salt , would realise they where dealing with a "hare trigger" and NOT use such negative methods.. because as sure as eggs are eggs, you are going to get the reaction he got.

And what possible benifit did it do for the dog.

I wonder how that dog is today, and does it still live with the family.

Defo !!
I was only thinking on how my Inka would have felt being treated like that at the time

I don't think I would ever be able to turn my back on a large breed, in the hope that it would back off. It's a bit of a gamble. Obviously, you made the right decision to do that but CM was obviously not confident in this dog and, from what I've heard, the dog was extremely aggressive to its owners, so maybe CM was right not to take the chance, I don't know:?

No problem Cheyenne, I read your posts on here very often. I value your opinions, as you clearly know what you are talking about when it comes to dogs! I was probably being over-sensitive, as a couple of members had, imo, overstepped the mark when they started attacking my beloved Chihuahua breed. I'm sure you understand why I was a bit narky myself

With regard your second paragraph, Cheyenne, I can see that the dog was stressed. You could clearly see that CM was stressed too (think he may have just taken on a bit much even for him). I think the point was that CM was trying to enforce that the dog need not be afraid of whatever was triggering his fear. The fact that the dog did calm down, to me, proved that CM had enforced that. Of course, others see the dogs submission as him "losing consciousness" and so on. I suppose it is natural that we all see different things.

It would be very interesting to see the whole programme. I must see if I can locate it. If it is the case, as you describe above, I think that CM was trying his best but, given some of the information from the more respected members on here (such as yourself) have given, maybe he could have been a little more understanding of the dogs behavioural issues. I can't say I blame him for holding the collar tight, as he probably feared for his own safety but maybe not putting the dog in that situation in the first place, might have been a sensible option I'm not sure there was anything that Cesar could have done to help that dog, as it was clearly out of control. Not only from what we saw on the programme but from what has been said on here, it seems like it was kind of a last ditch attempt to save the dog from being pts. I would love to know if the dog is still with the family. I do hope so, as I would hate to think he had been either pts or moved on

With regards posts by "Joedee" and "Jackbox" - I think you let yourselves down in a big way when you started to slam Chihuahuas! There is no excuse for ever slamming any breed. That is simply not the way animal lovers should go. We all know that there is enough prejudice towards dogs out there. To start slamming certain breeds is unforgivable. Therefore, I shall not address any of your posts on this subject, as anything you now have to say, is irrelevant to me

The stop prevents the noose from loosening & on the Illusion Collars the stop does not move & the noose loosen unless you pull it towards the hand loop end, if you do not push the stop up the lead until the noose is tight then yes the noose can loosen, but CM doesn't use then that way, he has them with the stop tightly up against the dogs neck.

Bothered-do I look bothered ? does my face look bothered ? Nope Your Chihuahuas are of course little angels with all dogs & people that they meet (despite you having to use CM's methods on one of them-oops the words foot & shoot come to mind )

My goodness Joedee, what happened to you in your life to make you such a bitter person

Jackbox, yes vets will use muzzles but as I said in another post, you have to get near the dog to put them on in the first place and often with dogs that have behavioural issues, the owners can't handle them either so they can't get a muzzle on themselves.

Its Bovvered

and nope..you dont

What's with the 'anti-CM' comments?

I'm not particularly 'anti-CM'. My opinion has been given in relation to what I've seen in this video and it hasn't changed, despite over 180 posts on the subject.

The dog in this particular case was provoked. CM did not attempt to get the dog's attention or focus, other than antagonising him by kicking him and choking him. There was no positive interaction and I believe the dog's reaction could have been avoided.

Sorry where do I slam Chi`s.. I was responding to your post, where you say Chi`s are not aggressive , yet you have one with issues yourself...just pointing out that Chi`s like any other breed will have some aggressive ones,


You know in the world of forums, it tend to work in the respect that you get out what you put in,

If you always have a attitude to others when they disagree with you , you tend to draw the same attitude back... and from some of your posts there is a pattern setting..if someone has a different view or disagrees with you, you take it as a personal insult, as this thread is a prime example... and all over someone you dont even know!!

So far in this thread you have come out with saying some one has "something to hide" calling people "rediculous", and telling those who dont agree with your views to "give it a rest"..

Oh for goodness sake, grow up... nobodies attacking your beloved breed, a few comments stating the obvious that Chihuahuas can be snappy is not an attack!!!

But it seems you get over sensitive to many of the opposing views to yours on this board!!

P.S..just saw you are no longer going to respond to me... OK, thats fine;-)

Yes, thats true, but it still does not excuse the treatment dished out to that dog.

I am sure most vets have a strategy in hand to deal with such dogs... after all they will see then every day.

You even get owners with non aggressive dogs, incapable when it comes to handling their dogs in such places.

But I think we are going off track here:?

Mia Culpa damn spell checker won't let me put bovvered without having to switch it off

Me bitter
Do I look bitter ?
Does this face look bitter ?

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Are you disrespecting me??

Are you disrespecting my family??

Are you calling me a pikey??

LOL..If you are bitter I am right there with you doll and hopefully on the same ignore list

I am a member of 3 other doggy forums and have not come across people who are as spiteful as you! By looking at other threads it seems its not just CM fans that bear the brunt of your wrath.

I love a good debate but there is no need for it to get nasty, its a debate, no one is right or wrong, you simply express your opinion.

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>Goes to lie down in a darkened room at this revelation[NOT]<

I agree, some of the things said here are completely out of term.

*sigh* how very sad

I cant see the clip for some reason but going by what people are describing has been done....IMO every dog is different and will react differently to different situations- such as my male gsd would not 'fight in an aggressive manner' to such a collar/treatment as being described he would more like throw himself about. Whereas my bitch gsds would give as good as she got and would not hesitate to bite in such a situation.
Is there an obvious reason as to why this dog had previously bitten his owners and CM?(apart from the treatment from CM?)
Surely working on the cause of the aggression whether it be fear/avoidance/pain or a learnt behaviour rather than forcing the dog to 'accept' a total stranger suddenly being 'dominant' over him etc.

ETA. I really dont like the man, but as I said, I couldnt watch the clip

"Joedee" your posts are ugly and you are ugly - that's why you are so bitter!!!!!

Jackbox, I would love to meet you in real life. You were slamming Chihuahuas, along with your "mate" who's as bitter and nasty as you. Shame on the pair of you.

Louise13 - as usual you jump on the bitch wagon. Enjoy yourself love, something tells me all three of you need to get some enjoyment in your life. Perhaps you don't have a man that looks after you - poor sad "ladies" (I use the term loosely).

And yes, no doubt I will get some "punishment" for what I've said but it needed saying. I've heard many members on this Forum complain about all three of you. You are known for your bitching and bullying!

You tell me to grow up Jackbox, sounds like you've well and truly grown up, into a miserable, nasty old hag.

Yes it is! You have to pity such sad cases;-)