Cesar Milan with wolf dog Shadow General Chat

There are lots of good trainers out there

Ian Dunbar - considered by many to be the father of modern dog training
Leslie McDevitt - lots of great information for reactive and stressed dogs
Silvia Trkman - just amazing dog trainer
Susan Garrett

and I know there are many more - interesting that whenever a thread is put up about other trainers the for CM crew dont post on other trainers or methods - its like CM is the only one out there - the last time this clip came up I started a thread on other ways to deal with dog agressive dogs and there was not a peep out of the CM fans here - not interested in any other methods

and online on Dogsey we have some amazing trainers, I just wish I lived closer to some of them


Often there is the quote "he has been the last chance for many dogs and owners"
I dont think there is a single behaviourist that couldnt say some owners have said that - not becuase they have tried everything - because they have tried eerything that they know

How many examples are there of these red zone dogs who have been to good positive trainers, failed and then CM has solved the problem??
Because I have heard from many positive behaviourists who have had to rehabilitate dogs after having been to CM type trainers

and, as I have said many many times
I am having a go at the methods of CM that I am seeing demonstrated here (and I have watched his shows) yes SOME of the stuff he does is OK, it is the more extream stuff I have issue with and that differs from other trainers

as I havent heard of a single CM fan on here saying they use these more extream methods then I am not having a go at any of you, I am having a go at anyone who chokes, pins to the floor, and physicaly domonates - if that is not what you do then why are you taking offense??

I am open to all trainers ideas and techniques, I don't think there is any one way that works for all dogs. CM is not the only trainer I like.

Threads about other trainers don't tend to be full of 'bashing' posts and don't provoke such a big reaction from people on both sides. The more people bash CM the more his 'fans' will stick up for him. I have no interest in bashing any other trainers ways as they obviously work for them just like CMs ways work for him. Each to their own.

and I haven't needed to use his "extreme" measures as my dogs are well socialised.

Ah here is the reason for you being so pro CM-he doesn't like show dogs either & ear bashing about neutering everything in sight.

Show dogs in 99% of the ones I have met have good temperaments-judges don't really like getting bitten.

The worst dogs for aggression both to people & other dogs that I have come across are Chihuahuas. I had one of my Beardies attacked by a Chihuahua , unluckily for the Chihuahua he attacked my brown bitch & as he attached himself to her face she did try her best to swallow him whole-sadly she was unsuccessful but his owner did get quite badly bitten by him as she tried to remove him from my bitches face. my bitch was on an ordinary lead & the Chihuahua was on a flexilead. This was definitely not the way Chihuahuas that are shown behave.

Actually I do not use a clicker, I have no need my dogs are trained using voice & treats & because of the trust there is between my dogs & me, I don't need to try to dominate them.

CM has tried to clean up his act after so many complaints but he quickly reverts to type.

Anyway you will be able to see him up close & personal not he's finally a US citizen he will be able to leave the country, come over here, take your money & return back again. Something he hasn't been able to do whilst he was an illegal immigrant.

Is that whats called the "pot calling the kettle!
As it seems to be you who is throwing your toys out , when people voice a negative opinion on the man.. not the other way round.

But as you say.... we are all entitled to an opinion.. but you have been the only one to tell others to "give it a rest" regards views on him..

You are entitled to like him, just like I and others are entitled to dislike him.

Has anyone told you to give it a rest , regards your opinion..
All opinions welcome... as they say;-)

Now, pick your toys back up, and rejoin an adult debate;-)

I have seen 2 dogs in the last few years who have snapped at the judge in the best in show ring at crufts, show dogs aren't always the best behaved.

This is getting rather spiteful and personal now, I have worked at a vets for 14 years and Chihuahuas are by no means the most aggressive dogs. I have had a lot more problems with collies temperaments than I have Chis if I'm honest. I don't understand why this has to turn so nasty. We like CM, you don't, life would be very dull if we were all the same

So it seems we have the string em up, kick em and pin them to the floor beleivers and the ones who think its cruel..

Personally I would rather my dogs respect me and listen to me because they want to and not because they fear what I will do to them..

However.. I would love to see CM alpha rolling a chihuahua..

Holding one down:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGK6KMDOykw

After about six minutes of footage.

I don't feel the need to stick up for other trainers or to put them down because everyone is entitled to their own opinions and to make their own choices in life.

Its never a cm fan that starts these posts because we don't feel the need to go look at this trainer i like his methods now everyone give me your opinions please, instead of the anti cm people posting clips and starting a hes good/ hes bad thread why not highlight some other trainers that you do like and we can maybe have a discussion with some give and take instead of just anti and pro's.

And im sure we have all had bad experiences with different breeds of dogs and so do not need to say well you own chi's and my dog was attacked by one etc.

I like lots of trainers - ian dunbar, victoria stillwell, sarah whitehead and my own agility trainer and more.

LOL What a muppet..

Treating a dog like a dog...yeah..my dogs don't get on the sofa unless invited.. carrying it about like a handbag isn't treating it like a dog!!

All this kicking business. if I "kick" my dogs, by that I mean push the dog with my foot, they leap on me and think its HUGE fun, especially Orey!! I doubt the "touch" CM method would work here in that respect!!

OMG, what a way to treat a fear aggressive dog. How can people honestly say that isn't cruel!?! :-/

Ian Dunbar is not a trainer he is a behavourist & the absolute opposite to CM

Victoria Stillwell is a failed actress turned dog behaviourist who walked other people's dogs to make ends meet & only recently obtained her first dog(chocolate Labrador). Set up dog walking business & then went into "training/behaviourism"Has some sound ideas, but nothing that hasn't been done before(also uses some of Ian Dunbars methods/ideas)-very much a TV personality.

Sarah Whitehead-is an lecturer and pet behaviour counsellor & uses clicker & reward training. Has a fairly large web of franchises all over the UK.

As I have BC's I have long admired Barbara Sykes & her knowledge of Border Collies is from a lifetime of experience. She has a real understanding of dog behaviour & has some excellent results with truly aggressive dogs.(very eerily she used to live near me & her best working dog was bred by a sadly now deceased friend-didn't realize this until I got into conversation with her)again the complete opposite to CM

John Rogerson is another dog behaviourist who has a lifetime of experience in dogs & again the complete opposite to CM. Met John whilst I was involved with my dogs in WT & have admired his dogs & handling in UK WT.

I also know a lot of good competitive obedience dog trainers & I know a fair few b awful ones too.

I do not base my training on anyone else's training methods, but I have picked up lots of advice in the 50 odd years I have been training dogs. I do not think I know all there is to know about dog training/behaviour & I am on a continual learning curve, however I have never & will never used pain & coercion to obtain the results I want. Just not my style.

How ridiculous - yes that "r" word again, of you. Now you are bashing Chihuahuas to try to rattle me! Try again, deary, as I know Chis are wonderful pets on the whole, just the same as any breed of dog. There are good and bad in all breeds! Shame on you for picking on a breed to try to score points! By the way, why do you cover your face in your profile pic - do you have something to hide?????????????

What has CM being an illegal immigrant previously got to do with anything?????

It's not people's views on CM that bother me, it's the fact the the anti-CM's on the whole, seem to ram down others throats how terrible CM is! That's what is ridiculous. All the talk of the dog in the clip being "in pain" and "losing consciousness" that's what is ridiculous, imo.

Don't try to turn the tantrum accusation back on me with the "pick up your toys" comment. You were the one coming on here with attitude because I said that some of the comments regarding the clip were ridiculous. If you don't like what I say then press the ignore, it's easy to do! I quite enjoy watching the likes of you getting on your high horse, it's very amusing so I won't be hitting the ignore button. Insult away, like I give a damn what you think anyways

Erm excuse for squeezing in, but (and you KNOW I do like a lot of what CM thinks) having looked at that video again, the dog IS gasping, thats why it falls so easily, and why he immediately removes the lead. If you look you can see the dogs tongue is grey and his breathing is harsh.

Not wanting to cause aggro, but you can clearly see it in this case.

Thanks for a little support Netpon

You're right, they are turning spiteful but hey, who can be bothered. When a member starts slating a breed just to get spiteful to another member, they've shown their true colours to one and all! I'd be ashamed if I had to resort to spite tactics to score points but some people have no shame

PMSL get a life it is a joke !

Anyone who knows me(& a lot of people do)it is a standing joke that I & my ring stewards wear disguises in the ring when I am judging obedience(we don't really wear disguises that is the joke)

Although it could be serious as I am an ex DWP Fraud investigator & was involved with prosecuting some very iffy characters(including one suspected murderer )I would hate to think his friends could trace me via a photo on this site)