Cesar Milan with wolf dog Shadow General Chat

Yep - SO true - never seen him do anything else.

In his first series there were no warnings about not trying the methods shown without "expert"supervision & I know there was one case of someone Alpha rolling their Alaskan Malamute & getting very very badly bitten, only after a court case did the warnings first appear.

This man shouldn't even be involved with dogs. His own dogs are so obviously closed down in his pack(which is now a new pack as he got rid of a lot when he moved his compound)He never has any eye contact with his dogs, which shows there is no trust there.

Those who think he is the bee knees are taken in by the flashing smile & salesmanship of his"product"His one size fits all & dominance theory that is so far from correct it is laughable.

If he was so good he would be able to read the dogs body language & not have to put himself at risk of being bitten the number of times he has & that's only in the televised programs. The term animal "whisperer"means animal communicator, someone who can understand the animals body language & behaviour & work to put right what has gone wrong.

I've dealt with 100s of rescue GSDs & never been bitten once, the only time I have been bitten was by an in harness Guide Dog who attacked me for absolutely no reason(it was a lab x retriever)whilst it was passing me & I had my back towards it. That was dog people aggression.

Understanding an animals body language & using it to solve problems isn't namby pamby as CM's devotees would have people believe, it is using non physical methods to resolve problems & unlike these stupid programs, doesn't involve "instant"fixes

Hi CheekyChihuahua

I think it's a bit unfair to call people 'ridiculous' because their opinion is different to yours. It's okay for people to disagree. In my opinion the kick antagonised the dog - the dog hadn't actually done anything before then. If CM's aim was to break the dog's interest in the other dog, I think there are better ways to do that and get his attention.

I agree, the dog was bound to fail after being provoked in such a way. That, in my opinion, was the whole reason behind doing it.

I also agree with people copying it and I have already seen people doing just that, after seeing him on TV and reading his books, talking about 'dominant' behaviour and rolling their dogs.

But cm isn't the only trainer to Alpha roll dogs ive seen mick martin on dog borstal do it to a dog that tried to bite him, i still havn't seen the whole episode so don't know the reason for the owners calling in cm in the first place, also they usually show cm meeting the owners then the dog that isn't shown in the clip and it would i assume give the full picture.

I don't use his methods because i have never had a dog try to bite me, other people or dogs - but i read all trainers methods and watch lots of different trainers and am willing to take into account that each dog is different and may need a different approach to training, cm has used treats and does not alpha roll every single dog he meets, if you watch more then just the clips that people post on here you may see that he has used other methods too, you still may not agree with him but you will have a whole picture instead of half.

My comment was in response to being called "naive" but I have to say that some of the comments on this thread regarding the cruelty CM inflicts, I can only describe as ridiculous. Sorry if that offends but I'm being honest

Anyhow, since when has fairness been taken into consideration on this Forum! I thought everyone just said it how they felt it was

When I read comments like the dog was in pain and losing consciousness and so on, I do find it utterly ridiculous! The dog was out of control. It was aggressive before CM came on the scene, that's exactly why CM was on the scene. You can't make excuses for aggressive dogs. They need dealing with. CM did his best to do that. I wouldn't have gone within miles of the dog

I am an adult of sound mind thank you and am not taken in by just a 'smile and salesmanship'. I have watched many of his shows and read a couple of his books and as an intelligent adult am able to come to my own conclusions and make my own mind up on his techniques. There are some things he does which I'm not sure of but his main philosophy is something that I do agree with.

Just because you don't agree with his techniques does not mean that everyone who does is a mindless fool who will go along with anything he says.

I have worked with dogs since leaving school both in a kennel environment and at a vets and am the proud owner of 4 very friendly, happy rotties. I don't profess to be an expert but I love dogs and would never do anything that I thought would be detrimental to their health and wellbeing.

Absolutely Netpon. I totally agree. Some members on here think that because you don't agree with them, you are an idiot.

The proof of the pudding and all that, as far as I'm concerned. I have eight dogs and they are very well behaved, on the whole. None of them have aggression issues. Why, because I believe I train them well and I do this based on CM's techniques. My dogs have never been in the "red zone" so I haven't had to alpha roll and allsorts but, having followed CM's techniques from when my Chis were pups, they have become great dogs. Sure, there are one or two issues, as in Pebbles barking at strange dogs. That, unfortunately, was due to people with aggressive dogs allowing their dogs to attack mine. Think there are a few people out there that need to have a look at CM's techniques. They might find they actually work!

Well said!!To the CM fansTHe question is constantly what would we do in that situationturning the question aroundCM was their to address the dogs problem with the collieHe pushed the dog too far until it became reactiveSo what we were seeing in the clip was him dealing with the effects of him pushing the dog to farWhat has the dog learnt about his interactions with the collie there?? No training or behaviour modification happend in that clip - all I saw was a man making a big mistake missreading the situation and then fighting with the dogThe reason I asked about what would you do if this was a dog showing obvious signs of fear - and thankyou Inkaleeva for being the only one to answerMost behaviour like this is a result of the dog fearing the other dog, fearing the situationAll dogs (and people and animals) respond different to fear, - some shake some shout - but that kind of behaviour is NOT domonance it is fear

I quite agree, however once a CM fan & follower always a CM fan & follower & those who believe he is almost Godlike will never change their minds. I changed my training methods over the years-the only thing I have never done is inflict pain on a dog. In the years I've been involved with dogs, training has "come of age"with most people, however people like CM will always have a place for the lazy/incompetent owners, who don't bother to train their dogs from day one & who treat their animals like humans & end up with a problem dog, they then seek a "quick"fix from people like CM, JF & DS

I think you will find that CM has many followers who are not lazy/incompenent! I use his methods from day 1 that a pup comes to my home and I have great pets with no serious issues

I think you will also find that some people that have sought CM's advice are not all lazy/incompenent. Some have just not had the experience of dealing with problem dogs.

Comments highlighted are fear aggression response so you do have a dog with aggression issues & CM's techniques don't appear to have helped you

If you have had your dogs since puppy hood, why do you need to use the illusion collar technique of strangulation etc

Your dog barks at other dogs ? simple "cure"-doesn't need an illusion collar, pseudo biting etc. You take your dog to where there are dogs being walked & approach them, when your dog starts to bark, you have left your dog's "comfort"zone, back off & when your dog stops barking click & treat. You can also use "stooge"dogs that will not react to your dog & this will increase your dogs comfort zone. It isn't as quick as stringing up you dog nor rolling it, but it will work & will cause no physical distress to your dog & have a much longer lasting effect. It also will not prove your Alpha status in your pack & won't help you dominate the dog. It will remove the fear that drives it to bark & replace it with trust in you

I certainly do not believe cm is a god like figure he is human the same as the rest of us, on youtube there are plenty of videos of him using other methods - yes his principles are the same but his methods are different and as he says himself he is always learning.
In the same way you say cm fans will always be cm fans no matter what anti cms will always be anti reguardless of what he does which is why anti cm people are always posting the clips on here and cm fans don't - maybe its because we don't choose to force our opinion onto others.

Which makes them incompetent owners who cause the problem. Puppies are not born with behavioural problems the develop because of lack of proper knowledge of how to deal with dogs correctly to ensure only good habits/behaviour develop.

Ok then Jodeeeee, seeing as you seem to be the self appointed resident expert on training and have a long list of "bad2 trainers, who is an acceptable trainer (apart from your good self of course)

I don't know what it is about your posts "Joedee" but you have a manner that puts my back up! It's like you think you know everything and everyone else is a fool! I'm sure you are experienced with dogs but not everyone has the same ideas and perhaps you need to stop judging everyone as if they are imbeciles.

Firstly, I don't use the illusion collar, so I'm not sure where you are going with that one.

Secondly, Pebbles barks when she sees strange dogs. It's not aggression as such because when she's faced with them, she stops barking and is fine - thank you.

CM wasn't responsible for the idiot that let her JRT attack and bite my Pebbles. She was just another irresponsible owner that didn't give a monkeys about other dogs welfare!

I haven't pussyfooted with Pebbles. She still gets to meet other dogs and is actually a lovely dog in every way, so no, CM's methods haven't failed me!

You go on with your clicker training, you obviously feel it works for you. I don't have a problem with clicker training and so on..........it's just not for me and mine. It's a pity the "anti CM's" don't just give it a rest and let others use his methods happily without such criticism every time his name crops up

Actually, some pups are born with issues. It's due to poor breeding, hence breeding dogs with fine temperament first, rather than their rating by some judge in a show ring

I take it you have the experience to back that statement up... regarding those who have a negative view of CM to your positive one.

In what way was it out of control??

The dog became aggressive AFTER CM got his hands on it.

But as you see fit to label us all "rediculous" I would love to hear your professional /experienced opinion on the positives of that video... just for the benifit of those who dont agree with you!!

No, puppies are not born with issues... they are born with an ingrained charater... and that charater will surface depending on many aspects in its life.

Excuse me , but the last time I looked, this is a free forum, where opinions from all sides of an argument are welcomed.

I did not realise we had suddenly become a CM fan only forum!!

Why should anyone give him a rest.. from criticism... the topic did not ask for only fans to voice an opinion.

So, you may as well get used to it.. when he crops up, you will get many and strong views on him..

And for the record, calling those views you dont agree with rediculous, will only bring like for like.

Calm down dear, you sound like a kid having a tantrum Don't demand this and that from me. Like you said, it is a free forum and I have a right to my opinions, as you do yours. I couldn't care less what you think of me or what I've said, so save it for someone that gives a damn

CM is the modern day Barbra Woodhouse..only in better clothes..

They both should only be allowed near goldfish

Which is why I've mostly stopped posting on CM threads ;-)