German Shepherd/Alsatian split? Discussions

Imo!!! Germanic Type, nice looking dog not over the top!

I agree, not my cup of tea either

That`s that sorted then

I`m sure it will come to you one day ;-)

Because I want to see healthy dogs which don`t look like cripples and you think that`s wrong ??

No, you have come to all sorts of strange conclusions, you see what you want to see regardless of lack of basis.

See above

Therein lays the difference - I actually care not for my own preference but for the good of the dogs.

So as `the` person responsible what are you doing to put a stop to the caracatures currently being bred ?

Define `our`...

That`s not what I said as it goes, my grounding in the breed was with working dogs, the one`s without banana backs and wobbly legs, dogs which actually could work - including doing more than trotting in a straight line with their backsides near enough on the floor.

My reasons for not having them now is personal to me and certainly not for you to belittle, if you think grieving is for you to use as a venomous attack point then that says a lot about you...

Now show me the same dog bringing a man down or doing agility, or even just doing a tight figure of eight at a proper running pace without having to bunny-hop to turn.

I'm hoping you're being tongue in cheek that poor dog looks like it will soon be bouncing along on its bum.:-(

Hi Kirsty I will answer your questions first;
Sorumour Knows Best sire Foxfold Vagabond (SHARDEE'S DOYLE AT FOXFOLD > FOXFOLD ICE MAIDEN) dam; Maggie Might At Sorumour (MAJOR FORCE > ORLANDO LADY)
English Obedience lines are not the same as the English showlines, infact Major Force is sired by an Import, they tend to mix the lines.
Kazeti Nitus you are correct German Showlines.

Kenwu Angelic Lady; a mix of Germanic(including Imports), Whites, pet/obedience lines.


I dont think I have any in stance but have some free standing I will dig them out.
Pam

You always have to bring it down to Zamp dont you, have you seen this dog in his home country? I doubt it. What is it jealousy because you wont attain both the show grading and working qualifications he as.
I have seen this dog move extremely well gaiting around a football stadium on numerous occaisons in Germany, I have also seen a large number of his progeny to several different dams. When you have had your hands on him, examined him and also seen him gaiting off lead and completing manwwork, then I will listen to your opinion of him but untill then I wont. There are too many armchair critics on here that have never had their hands on these dogs that is able to give an acurate critic.

Claire Dogs/Bitches in adult classes in Germany need to have a working qualification to be able to be bred from and shown. Likewise Dogs/Bitches of Workline Dogs need to achieve a minimum Show grade.

Pics Kirsty, the closest dog is Alfe He is middle of the road type as 2 English/Germanic dogs in his 7th gen, Zandi the dark one at the rear is 100% Highlines Sire was a Korean Bred dog.


Alfe






Sorry about light conditions taken at dawn in winter

Pam,

They're lovely.

Thanx for your PMs.

Laura xx

Yes - and perhaps this is a road we (UK) should be going down. And not just with GSDs. At the very least I`d like to see dogs capable of a good run - imagine asking a show bulldog that? (Sorry a bit OT)

Thanks Pam, so I was correct in knowing which types my dogs are That is good to know.

So, if there were to be a split, where would the english obedience lines go?

I don't think you actually have to still own a breed to love, admire and care about it. In fact, I don't think Dyane actually has a GSD either, but is obviously very passionate about the breed.

Sorry to hear you still miss your boy so much Patch :-( , but I think you should open your heart to another GSD one day, as I always think it is the greatest compliment to a breed to want another when you have lost one and I am sure you wouldn't be disappointed

Beautiful dogs Pam, and neither look exaggerated. Lovely.

Why can't this happen in the UK - and for all working/pastoral breeds? That would certainly help to sort the wheat from the chaff so to speak.

Thank you, you understand )))hugs(((
Sadly the decades have not dulled the pain, I don`t think they ever will

first of all i have only mentioned zamp a couple of times i dont 'bring it down to zamp' all the time.
I have not seen him in his own country, i have not had my hands on him and i am not jealous of him lol. he may have grading and working qualifications but that does not mean i have to like his type. I am not trying to force people into agreeing with my opinion...and thats exactly what it is, from my OPINION he is not my cup of tea- and many will agree, many wont- that is up to them. Many people on here giving opinions on these dogs have not met zamp or many other dogs...does that make their opinion wrong? no, because everyone is entitled to their opinion regardless of what other people think and obviously that is what is causing this thread- to give peoples different opinions and to discuss the breed.

Another thought. I love my longcoats, and from now on will probably have German show or workline longcoats. Would these be included as "German Shepherd Dogs" in a split in the breed? I believe the person who started this ballot is completely against longcoats, as well as any colour other than the standard black/gold :?

yeh...it would also be interesting to know where my non standard, white longcoat falls into?

Right Patch, this will be my last words on the subject.

It is obvious that you will ignore what I say (or multi-qoute it back to me with facetious comments or questioning every tiny point I make, because you appear to refuse to accept that anyone has a right to an opinion)

I also do not like 'banana backs or wobbly legs' though I have seen young shepherds who can be a bit 'hocky' though this has corrected itself in time as they grow.

Perceptions of banan backs vary, though in my opinion, the only 'banana backs' are those where the back is higher than the withers. I also do not want to see cripples though it seems that you think (or assume ;-) ) that all German showlines are crippled??

I have only recently been appointed as health rep for the club (due to a kc initiative) so I am currently assessing the best way to advise and educate our members (most of which are pet owners) and we have recently amended our code of conduct to put a greater emphasis on health.

When I say 'our' I mean the breed club to which I belong and serve on the committee.

I apologise if I upset you if you have recently lost your GSD, I have recently lost my Golden Retriever so I understand just how difficult it is to get over the loss of a member of your family.

Maybe you can understand that I too am very very passionate about the breed and I am trying to do something to promote health and ownership of my breed.

My last words on the subject.

I guess in a split the long coat would be an irrelavent consideration in as much as, for the purposes of classifying a dog, the underlying conformation and pedigree would be looked at to see if it is 'germanic' or 'english'.

I think that Mr Payne is a bit extreme in his views if that is what he is saying - sable, bi-colour, solid black are standard colours even by the SV standard aren't they - is he saying the standard is wrong in allowing these colours?

I think it is views like this that limit genetic diversity and ultimately lead to the decline of a breed.