German Shepherd/Alsatian split? Discussions

Hi,

Some of these posts are really informative and I must add, after owning GSDs growing up and also as an adult, I have now cmoe to the conclusion that I do NOT in fatc now own 2 GSDs but 2 Alsatians.

I'm not sure how Yiannis will turn out as he has so much growing to do but he is the image of Zane in structure etc.

Zane has a large head, large round fet, thick bones, square shoulders and a horizontal straight back with long rear leags.
Looking at some of the picturesposted on the links, he is the image of the American dogs in the 1940's. My personal opinion is that I love this shape of GSD and hope Yiannis grows up to be the same.

To me, the GSDs with the extenaively sloping back look almost as if they are in pain and it doesn't seem right to continue breeding dogs with slopes. I'm not qualified to argue the point past my own personal opinion, but I much prefer the look of the dogs I have and I consider myself lucky that so far, none of them have had any serious health problems.

Laura xx

Hi Laura my dogs when not in stance have a level topline, and I can safely assure you they are not in pain, especialy having extremely low hip scores, one being perfect.
If you pm me the registered KC names of your dogs I can tell you what type of lines you have in them.
Pam

Patch, as an 'old fossil' (your words!) I can see you are living in the past and refusing to accept that anyone CURRENTLY in the breed (and I speak as a member of a breed club committee) may have a point.

As you insist on calling your dogs by an incorrect name, I shall insist on believing you know nothing about the current GSD (alsatian) scene or dogs.

I will now bow out as I have no wish to get into a slanging match with you. Though I would love to know your involvement in our breed, other than as a pet owner.

Please feel free to PM me in order to keep this thread on track.

It might be useful to see pics of dogs not in stance then, both 'alsatians' and 'gsds' - any excuse for a pic.

Pam - would you mind sharing photos of your dogs in and out of stance for a comparison. I think that would be helpful to this discussion.

I would also be interested to know whether my bitch (Sorumour Knows Best) is considered "english" bred, as she certainly doesn't look like the "Alsatian" photos already posted, yet I believe she is from mainly english obedience lines. Thanks.

Also, am I correct in thinking my male GSD (Kazeti Nitus) is from German showlines? If so, he certainly isn't over-angulated or roach backed.

While you are looking, would you mind telling me what kind of lines my first shepherd (a reject police dog) was from - her KC name was Kenwu Angelic Lady.

Thanks

lol - great minds think alike Skilaki (ps. Just uploading the pics from this morning's walk)

I do think people currently in the breed have a point - at least those currently in the breed who don`t turn out wobbling cripples which look like wrecks.

I call my past dogs by the name which was correct at the time, and as both are still used by the KC and as people tend to know both names = same breed it`s a silly issue, get over it

Believe what you like, you have no idea of the depth of passion I have for the breed though the fact that I give a damn about the state of so many of them should give you a clue. Don`t presume I`m some numpty who does`nt know what`s what thank you very much.

No I don`t think you would like to know, it might blow your assumptions well out of the water...

I did`nt take the thread off track. Please try to remember that Alsatian/GSD are one breed. They should remain one breed imo, with the wrecked looking cripples being bred away from to get the one breed back into a state where people don`t look at them in horror because they look so horrendous and can`t move in a normal fashion.

Watch this dog move and tell me he isnt "normal" you be hard pressed to find a more powerful and sound dog.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6qdgkwO-JM&feature=related

Can you warn me next time you are going to post something equivalent to a horror flick :-(

You mean apart from the fact that when he stands head on to the camera he has the most awful inwardly converging hocks - that when he's moving slowly he can only pace - and when he's gaiting he over-reaches?

Debs

Now now,be nice! Fiind me an english type that can move as soundly and vigourously as that!

Would I be right in thinking that the leaders of these factions breed and show? And therefore have a financial stake in which `type` becomes the preferred show dog?
In the GSD handsome is as handsome does. An unsound dog cannot be handsome, no matter which type. Instead of breeding to a exaggeration of the standard which has proved damaging for breeds like pekinese and bulldogs, this working breed needs to be bred to do what he`s meant to do. So any exaggeration that makes the dog unfit for work should bar him from the show-ring.

The Alsatian owned by a lass nearby has far better movement and that`s with her being very overweight from being rather spoiled on the food front, [ she is on a diet now ], but her dog even while overweight can twist and turn on a dime, has normal natural movement at all paces, runs easily, trots easily, walks easily, is a powerhouse, and does`nt look like she will need holding up at any moment. She also has a fantastic temperament.
And a bitch at the vets this morning, she looked like she could work endlessly.
And the numerous Alsatians on the UK agility circuit, any one of them that I`ve seen moves better than the dog in the clip.
Jmo of course

Borderdawn, I too noticed the really bad cowhocks on the gsd on the vid you posted. Not my cup of tea I'm afraid.

I really think that each person views beauty very differently, either that or they have vested interests in keeping a type in favour (not implying that of anybody here).

Obviously I bow down to your erm 'superior' knowledge then Patch. I was under the impression age and experience brought maturity and knowledge. Obviously I couldn't be more wrong.

In your case it has brought stubbornness and the inability to see beyond the end of your own nose.

Oh and I have no assumptions other than those your own words have provided.

I still believe you know nothing about GSD(alsatians), not even their correct name!

I have no 'vested interest' in which dogs I prefer, I do not breed or show. However I am the committee member responsible for promoting health in our breed for our club, I run training sessions and I help to run our breed champ and open shows and steward on a regular basis - what do you do Patch to promote our breed. Oh sorry, you think I'll be too amazed by your achievements, whoops you don't even have any GSDs or Alsations or whatever you call them any more, silly me!

If you want to see good movement look at:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&hl=en-GB&v=TIFpKL0qRQ0

My goodness - I am completely bowled over by the thoughtful and considered opinions expressed so beautifully in this debate! There is an almost Socratic element to the discussion

I offered to take it off board, but as Patch obviously enjoys multi quoting and refuses to take it off board, how could I resist

NB I have added to my post since you posted

its too far away-the bit i watched anyway.
the first one by borderdawn is not imo a very nice dog...but then again dawn does like zamp-enough said!!

it doesnt really matter how much people know about the breed, people form their own opinions, some like 'alsatian' types and some like gsd type. some like the seriously deformed hocks, some dont. but everyone is entitled to their opinion without being shot down because it isnt what other people agree

think i looked at the wrong vid! seen that before- not my cup of tea

If I am totally honest, I've got sooo confused by this post lol.

Would someone be able to look at Jess and tell me whether she is a GSD or an Alsation (I personally think they are the same, but would like to see what other people think)