If NI are so unhealthy................... Discussions

I've heard that she is now planning another litter from this bitch.

AND that is why the NI is in such a mess..more secrecy...

Its personal in the sense that its about a breeder (or more than one) but its not personal in the sense that these lines and pups are going to be in other peoples homes..so why not be open about the problems that people are still breeding from??

Sorry but I am inclined to believe the specialist on this one you are just being spiteful as ever! Sansorrella you have rehomed drift,luna,wilo,breeze,cloud,merlin, and thats probably only very few of the many dogs you have used then rehomed with out speying or nuetering.

Not forgetting Flow who you said was not really breeding material as she was patchy, had a curly tail and a soft ear but then rehomed her to another breeder who you said went on to breed her every season why did you not have her speyed? was that because you wouldn't have got paid ?

So all the stuff about who rehomed who, who has kids and that so's so is lying about this and that is all relevant info and in no way personal? I'm sorry but all of this smacks of personal issues and fallings out to me . . .

pmsl I never got paid for one of those dogs you mentioned.

Going over old ground - when I first got into breeding I did not like the fact that breeders moved on older animals and kept the young and I swore I would never do it.

However, once I began breeding I soon found that it was the only thing to do. You breed to improve on the parents, so if you do that it makes sense to keep a pup you have bred (why else would you breed them otherwise?) and in the end you have too many dogs and its only fair to move some on. Some would still make suitable breeding stock for beginners in the breed, while others are only suitable as pets.

By the way - Flow was bred against my better judgement but on the recommendation of your mate JK - and at that time I trusted her advice. She even recommended who she should go to on breeding terms.

You know all this anyway - you are just annoyed that I am making public what you are doing.

I am not doing anything, except challenging you because you are lying.
How come whenever you are caught out you seem to blame JK, saying she told you to do it? did she tell you what to do with Merlin or did you make that terrible decison all on your own?

Poor Merlin, wasnt he out of a Mahlek bitch and sired by a Mahlek Dog?

Anyway back to topic, Sansorrella all your dogs come from Mahlek lines if this is where as you say all the health issues,inbreeding lie why are you using dogs from these lines to outcross?

When you bought your dogs did you not look at thier pedigree, how come several litters later and after falling out with JK are they suddenly not acceptable lines to breed from but yet you still are?

Yes, poor Merlin RIP, not sure of his line

I think you will find JK was responsible for his breeding, as with most of the ones with issues, as she has flooded and totally dominated the breed, which is why there is no room for improvement anywhere as they presently stand. Its also why the genepool is so small and there is nowhere for people to turn, as after 2/3 generations all the dogs are the same, even if the names are different they are often siblings.

Whilst I totally am against the crossbreeding, I can see why they want to do it, the NI has a more sociable "pet" temperament in many instances, and the Saarloos, CWD are established and health tested, a place to start?

The problem i have though is a a lot or the problems people feel the breed have currenty have no tests to identifi carriers. So its still people playing in the dark, the CWD and Saarloss are even more inter bred at the start so it stands to reason they have a few genetic skeletons in the closet too . . . .

Doing testing that is avalible (hip scoring, eye testing ect) on breeding stock and not breeding from any lines that are symptonatic (sp?) are all people can do. Well we can do that with the NI as it stands with out out corssing and possibly bringing in even more problems.

No tests for carriers? Then STOP breeding altogether, as these people KNOW what they will produce at some point!!

Sorry i'm a bit lost, who was Merlin & what was wrong with him?

For Werewolf you mentioned this

"I strongly believe that people who breed with financial gain as a priority cannot treat their dogs as well as they deserve to be treated."

Is this selective or do you apply your morals to the NIS breeders as well?

Merlin has a very long and sorry story, but in a nut shell he was a dog with issues who was rehomed then used as a stud dog, had problems with agression and was PTS. This is the brief version . . . .

So do you say the same for ALL breeds that have genetic disease's that carriers can not be tested for?

Thanks Raz

I thought we were talking about NI? A "type" that has been in existence for less time than I have owned one of my cats!

Rachel, it is said if you listen to ALL camps, that this dog and that dog are responsible for Epilepsy in the NI, why then are these same lines right through the breed and altough the same animal may not be used now, its very close relatives are? Is this the practice of good breeders? If you think that dogs should be bred from because you cant tell if they will pass these disease on, why is Marie being picked on?

You talk of Merlins temperament, what about Luz's Brodie? She bit her enough for her to seek help in possibly rehoming her, but she still bred two litters from her then rehomed her anyway, even adverising her not suitable to live with children or other dogs! One of her daughters was in rescue (why Luz didnt have her back as any responsible breeder would I dont know) it was stated she also didnt get on with dogs, inherited temperament, or environmental? Either way not a good choice of home in the first place or poor temperaments on breeding stock!!

Merlin has jack all to do with this thread bless him and I hate to think how his original owners must be devestated and disgusted at what their pet was put through.
This thread has gone way off topic n yes I have taken it off topic aswell as others but it astounds me of the dumbness of people once money signs are in sight.

Just to add neither of my dogs are being rehomed contrary to what SC seems to think

Did you read my post???

In some ways it is personal..and in some ways its not..

Who has kids is relevant in the discussion it was taking place in.. of course someone who has fighting dogs AND kids in the house is going to be under more pressure to sort it than someone who doen'st have kids..

Dogs being rehomed..yes thats relevant..where are they being moved to and renamed etc..being bred from and who to should all be public knowledge..so that people can keep track of the dogs..THE secrecy and NOT KNOWING is what made the mess in the first place!!!

I remember posting pictures of my dogs and things got rather personal where NI people were calling my dog a crossbreed etc..AND actually now I come to think about it..there were lies on that thread too from an NI member about me..Notice we are still waiting for the quotes where I personally insulted Abbie's dogs?? Either its taking her this amount of time to find them because there are soooo many..or its taking her this long because she can't find any...so after she personally called my dog names..she then realised I had NEVER insulted her dogs and decided to say I had to cover her own back...to try and make out she was just doing the same..

Still I would like to see these quotes..as I copied her remarks before they were deleted..