If NI are so unhealthy................... Discussions

Another thing is ref the NID being crossed with the wolf dogs, a couple of the breeders have made it quite clear they are no longer breeding NIDs, but are moving on and one has even said 'there is no future for NIs' (taken from post 1542, link below*) . What I am highlighting is, their intention to cross these dogs isn't to improve/help the breed, it is clearly for their own agendas:-( ££££££££££

*
http://www.dogsey.com/showthread.php?t=97653&page=155

Some very good points, but I don't really think you can say categorically that "The NI doesn't need outcrossing". Yes, most will appear healthy (of course they blooming well should!), but the incidence of any inherited genetic conditions at this stage (only 20 years in) is a worry, and could be evidence of lack of genetic diversity. This will never improve if new blood isn't added, and obviously, the same can be said for most breeds of pedigree dog! This is something I believe the KC should be addressing, but hey, you don't have to deal with them!

To me, all these reports of conditions that are likely to be genetic, coupled with some of the shocking pedigrees ring huge alarm bells. I know nothing you see on the internet can be taken as gospel though, but I still find it hard to see how you could come to the conclusion that 'outbreeding is not needed'. The only way you could really come to this kind of conclusion would be to scientifically investigate the genetic diversity of the NI.

I can see it from both sides though - outcrossing can't really be bad for the NI (providing it is done with care, research and planning like you say), but at the same time, I can see why it looks like some are hopping on a bandwagon, and if they don't really care about breeding the Northern Inuit anymore and believe them to be unhealthy, using them in a breeding programme would be pretty pointless!

Why are there these extremes though? Doesn't anyone believe that some careful, occasional outcrossing could actually benefit the NI as a breed? Why is it so polarised? It seems like people think either: the NI is perfectly fine and will be forever or there's no hope for it as a breed so we'll just use NIs to cross with others? Seems really odd to me. I guess I'd be a member of the British Utonagan Society!

If the whole society would agree to it, or at least be accepting and have a plan...i could see it as being beneficial....but if not everyone supports it, the mixed pups would just be culled (in the true sense of the word)...and time would be wasted that could be used to better the breed. Me personally...I wouldn't want a mixed NI. IMO, it seems like the owners that have the most problems with NI are people that have one of these "stronger outcrossed" NI (no doubt due to breeders with poor advice, little research, and money on their minds).

And as far as line breeding goes...my vizsla has just as much, if not more, line breeding and in breeding on her petigree than many of the petigrees that I have seen with NI...and many of her family members have gone on to be show champions with lots of litters. Not that I am okay with this, but it is something that is widely used in the dog world and not necessarily something horrible, as long as research is done. I was watching Dogs 101 the other day and it was saying that Shih Tzus (sp?) are all the decendants of (i think) 10/15 females and 10/15 males...i bet that those hundreds of years ago they were oh-so-careful about which lines and whose mom was whose sister, and they seem to have turned out fine (if you like that sort of thing, no offense ment...) But it just goes to show you that, with careful planning for the future, it will all turn out okay...

Dogloverr i would say don't believe everything you read on a forum from other people . . . I take people as I see then not based on other peoples jugdements. I would suggest you do the same as a new member.

MOST NI breeders (and certainly the ones i am friends with) care about their dogs and the breed and are working towards the future of the breed. People like CW that used to churn out litters only see one thing i am afraid £££££

I notice quite a few posts about money in this thread but i dont see anywhere a mention of how much Sandra & Marie's crossbreeds pups are going to be selling for, for all anybody knows it could be £300, what would you say to that?
Would that make a difference?

But your own NI's breeder bred from a patchy bitch before she was hip scored (or ignored the score and bred anyway) then states on her website she was spayed due to a high hip score already having been bred from! Its right across the board Rachel. i agree with Nes that most of it is money oriented, it must be the case in Ela's breeders case mustn't it?

razcox ive read a lot of info.. ive been on cw site as well and i think its a good cross with these dogs.. if it promotes good health id pay £300 for that.

But if NI's are all so ill etc why breed from them???

It makes no sense as all you are doing is bringing more dogs into the mix, if you 100% honestly believe they are ill then DONT BREED THEM WITH ANYTHING!!!

My good god how is this not sinking in?

Havent you given yourself an affix now Jem? Are you going to breed?

Jem, i agree, they were all up in arms about breeding to a patchy bitch (using the stud to breed out the patchy gene), but I guess that the same concept doesn't hold true for all those illnesses that NI have

Who is SC?

Are the NI breeder's testing there breeding dogs for anything?

Hi Dotty
SC is Sandra Curry & some do test, some dont.

Patchy coats is not an illness!! Its purely and utterly breeding for the sake of it and in no way at all benefitting the type of dog! If its classed as a fault, it should not be bred from, how on earth would you hope to improve these dogs when you keep breeding from substandard animals?

Exactly my point, deary. If you are against breeding from faulty dogs, than you should also be against using NI and all of their 'illnesses' in a different breeding program...because even with outcrossing the 'illnesses' will still be recessive traits, right?

OOPS!! you havent been reading have you, go read my posts and find one that agrees with the outcrossing or crossbreeding! You will be there a while "deary"

Nail hit right on the head!!!!!!!! Good post.

actually this one wasn't directly meant at you...as i know that you are against anything NI...it was meant for the general population of readers....

Then you shouldnt of quoted my post! I wouldnt of thought it was directed at me then

Please re-read it and you will see it WAS directed at me, using words such as "you"

No I dont have a affix, Yes I have one picked out and its there for everyone to see but I havn't paid for it as I dont have the money for it and at the min im still in 2 minds over things, If you read my website yes I intend to breed but not anytime soon as I dont have the experience, time or money and there are a few issues im still not happy with.