Natural short tail/bobtail Border collie? Questions

My dog is a cross between a labrador bitch and an unknown father (but must have been a collie judging by the puppies looks.) Of eight puppies, two had full tails, four half tails, and two no tails. Must have been a strong hereditary trait!

Thanks for the pic Fiona. I will get Allan to take a look when he gets in.

hahaha you beat me to it was going to say about Bob and his naturally short tail

Its true! If you google you can find some old old pics.

Also my friend bought a collie from a farm sale he has about half a tail (& no white bit) Wether he had a accident or is a bob who knows?????

Funnily enough there is a bit in this month's International Sheepdog News about natural bobtails and the author of the piece said that she had a call from a neighbour who used to have one and said they came over from Ireland in the 1870s to Bala - to the very first official sheepdog trial. This neighbour said his bitch was a descendant of those and according to 'those who know' it is a pure breed. The old Welsh drovers would use them as their 'front' dog as they were very strong and would guide cattle past other cattle.

There is more info apparently on www.coolieregistry.com - click on History.

I would imagine that it wouldn't be impossible for an odd bc to have a bob tail...
the girl that walked inka had an australian with a natural bob tail.

Wow, thanks all, I've found all this really interesting.

Stumpy has no tri-colouring at all, but I guess she could still be a natural bob-tail after all. Unfortunately I doubt that I will ever know for sure.

I have often wondered about stumpys tail,

I never new there was such a thing as a bob-tailed collie,

really intresting thread.

I would have thought you could tell if it was natural or not by if the fur grows over the end of the tail. When a tail is docked the fur never grows up to the tip (particularly noticeable in short haired breeds like dobes). I would assume a natural bob tail would have the fur growing all the way up to the tip.

Would be harder to see on a long haired dog but you might still be able to tell.

Max had a small bob tail and a little bit of fur on the end that is how we knew and the vet that it wasn't docked although it wasn't illegal then the vet did question me about his tail.
Of 6 of the litter 3 had bob and 3 had lovely long tails.
This is very interesting. Funny thing was we were told he had some OES in him but we never could tell as he looked Aussiex with Rottie maybe he did and thats where their bob came into the equation.

Actually that's not quite true - i've seen docked dogs, particuarly those docked very short, where it is impossible to tell, i've also seen natural short tails with no hair on the end.

I've seen a fair few litters now where there have been natural short tails and docked pups in a litter and by about 7 weeks it is quite difficult to tell which is which

The only way to tell is by touch and comparing docked to natural against each other

I may take a photo of kaos's tail later so you can see the line of docking and how the hair sits on it,

We've tried to compare them before haven't we and Stumpy's feels/looks very different to Kaos's, though its difficult to tell exactly because (1) she's very hairy and (2) she's not very comfortable with having her tail closely examined.

With Stumpy's tail there is a sort of bobble on the end and no sign of a scar/bald patch.

I think you get a very diff look when a tail has been done with the band method, to that of the straight off method,

if anyone has a dog that has been docked with a band it would be intresting to see the comparison.

I'd love to see pictures if anyone had any?

this is kaos's tail, which Im sure was done by the straight chop method vets use,

he came with a vet cert for having it done,

you can see the scar line, sorry not the best photos

I Believe my border collie has a natural bob/short tail. I'll post some pictures and you can tell me what you think. If hes not pure he's very close.

Out where I live, there are ranchers that dock all their stock dogs no matter the breed Australian Cattle Dogs and Border Collies included. I've been told its to prevent their tails being shut in a gate. Whatever. Just another example of people doing a stupid thing for a stupid reason.

I did know a border collie who was born with No tail, like none at all. She had rectal paralysis and had problems her whole life, so natural though it was, it was certainly to her detriment.

Even Aussie Shepherds that are born with bob tails are usually still docked because a natural bob tailed looks nothing like the uniformed docked tail and you know how some people are about appearances. (insert rolling eyes here)

I'd certainly be interested to see some photos of your boy to see how his tail compares to my girl's

As you say, another example of people doing a stupid thing for a stupid reason

well i must admit , i have a bob tailed border collie ( she was born with no tail ) as well as the litter with her