100% Wolf X Dog Controversial

Crossing wolves with dogs does not benefit wolves at all. The percentage figures used are a general guide that have been used for years. An F1 wolf x dog is 50% wolf as it in herits 50% genetic material from each parent. That is the genotype. If it turns out looking like a border collie because its mum was and it inherited her looks, then that is the phenotype; what it looks like but it is still 50% wolf in its genes etc.

If you cross two F1s then the off-spring still inherit 50% from each parent and that where it get complex!

There are known health problems in Saarloos and Cwd; mainly PRA and dwarfism. Neither seem that common in France, I have seen one dwarf CWD. As breeds they are generally more healthy than a lot of dog breeds.

croosing wolves with dogs has no benefit to the wolf but it does create a healthier dog.

Now I show my ignorance

If no new wolf blood is added, will the % of wolf get diluted with every generation? Or will it be retained to different degrees in different dogs?

Not ignorant at all I want to know too I would think if you always mated 2 half dog half wolf it would stay the same but the appearance could differ.

Probably wrong though

Your dogs Banji? What do you have, how much WOlf experience do you have and canine genetics too, as you seem to KNOW this would be better for dogs!

if you only breed saarloos to saarloos they will retain the wolf content and not be diluted
but if you cross breed then it will be diluted.
only gets diluet if you cross breed the dog.

I suggest Banji is here only to cause aggro he seem to pick and choose the questions to answer even though he claimed others were doing just that! Ill ignore him/her from now on as they seem not to want to disclose any info on their dogs etc nor on their experience or interet in them. Im done with conversing with anonymous posters!

http://www.wolfpark.org/wolfdogs/Poster_section2.html

Actually no, I haven't, I didn't muck out then and I purely ride now.

Which is what every dog in the country started out as! And yes, we all know the Saarloos was originally Wolf x GSD. Nobody denies that.

Coming from she who owns an NI and EBT and has made the comments you have in this thread

Well it seems Wolfwannabe wont be coming back as her "post" on CW tells of how narrow minded and silly we all are, yeah ok!

Anyway, NOBODY said the Saarloos had NO Wolf content, that was one thing she got wrong.

Secondly, I asked of her experience with these dogs, and the length of time she has owned them, to gather what experience she has, she however declined to reply, never mind eh!

Banji has also refused to reply when asked what dogs he owns and what experience of dogs and wolf genetics he has to base what he is TELLING us is right, because we are all wrong.

Whilst I appreciate that people will defend their dogs ad very rightly so, I cant help thinking some of these people "think" they have something different to other dogs? Can somebody please explain that to me? Why is it different for a Saarloos to display its breed character, but when another brees does it its "normal" behaviour? See I cant see where they differ at all, I like them a lot, but as with any pedigree breed, they of course will display their inherited traits, like my Terriers will rag and rip whatever they may catch, their inherited genetics predispose them to chasing and killing small furries etc...

So Id like to know what is so "special" about the Saarloos please, because the talk of no new genes in 40yrs and a diminishing gene pool is making me change my mind somewhat.

so what were you if not a groom? race horse owner?

Ok BD,

With 40 years of selective breeding, you still only have the genes that were put into the breed in the first place (genetic mutation is a very slow process and the cause of much difficulty to geneticists). Essentially it means that copies of the same genes appear in every animal, i.e. the animal breeds true to type, like a dog breed should. So therefore it is reasonable to assume that those 40% wolf genes are still in there. With a narrow gene pool it makes removing un-wanted traits more difficult.

The Saarloos posses a different character to most other dogs. It is very hard to quantify but I will just say that it tends to 'think' more like a wolf than a dog. All Saarloos show caution and a fear of new things, some show this in the extreme. This makes for a very shy animal, rather like a caged wild animal reacts to strangers.

This can be difficult for many people to handle. Many people do not want this type of animal. People buy them because they look great and think they can handle any dog, often men get into trouble; possibly because they tend to often come across as more dominant.

If you read the CW thread you will see that CR even thinks that this is a problem in the breed and cites this as a possible reason to develop the breed in the UK further. I like the Saarloos but in all the years of visitors coming to my house none have left wanting to own one! Hmm.

All dogs can display traits that could be described as being of wolf origin, the difference is that the degree of intensity in a wolfdog is much higher.

I am tempeted to disagree....in all the dogs I have met the one who has displayed the most wolf like tendancies is a Spaniel X......He is feral. When we first let him out into the garden ( 2 weeks after he came to us) he was like a caged wild animal - it was 18 months before he approached people willingly.
I have never seen a dog like this - nor has anyone who has met him - he shows all the tendancies you are describing in the extreme.

When the vet saw him and we asked had he seen anything like him before - his answer was not in captivity.

We do not know where he came from, whether he had bad contact with people or no contact with people. We would not have kept him except we were told he was a 12 week old pup - as it was when we got him home, muzzled him (he was emaciated to the point of almost having given up) washed his back end and syringed water down his throat, we discovered he had 2 fully decsended testicals and a full set of adult teeth. We guessed his age as around 8-12 months.

Not going to argue about your spaniel cross. The point was that as a rule wolfdogs in general are more wolf like than spaniels in general. Plus being shy of humans is only part of the behaviour. I can only base my observations on the 100+ Saarloos I have met and the dozen plus wolves that I have interacted with and the many others I have observed. ;-)

Yes....but one 'family' breed with little or no interaction with people - thats all it took to exaggerate those traits to the extreme.