100% Wolf X Dog Controversial

General, I'm a little lazy in my quotations tonight

No problem, just when I get started talking about RRs, there's no stopping me

Gnasher has stated on another thread that Hal wasn't a Utonagan, but a Mal/Husky/Wolf cross. She preferred to have Hal known as a Utonagan in order to protect him.

They're suposed to be. I think the dog in question here, if you were refering to gnasher, was actually an F4 hybrid being described as an ut, as before the law was changed, it was illegal to keep him without a licence, so for its own sake, it was described as being something it wasn't. I maybe intirely wrong, but that what I gathered earlier in the thread when it was being argued about, if indeed it is the same animal to which you are refering.

I can confirm this as being true.

Oh yes, I remember. However handsome, I still think he was relatively wolf free.

Shame this is a wolf x dog thread as I'd love to hear from someone in the know about how much on that programme was true (or not). Beautiful dogs regardless.

He was lovely, wasn't he?

hmmmmm

I think that now it is legal to keep an F3, or a lower content hybrid people can come out and be honest about what really is in the NI

I can understand the secrecy in the past, but now it can be all out in the open

[QUOTE=wolfdogowner;1615844]This is a very interesting thread. there are a couple of people here who have a real anti Shaun Ellis agenda, Eko and The Master and others who sway either way. So far the only facts are that CR has said that he and Shaun will cross breed, but having read CRs thread it appears he is continually 'thinking out loud' and sounding ideas, whereas (to my knowledge) Mr Ellis has made no public statement to the effect. So far they are guilty of nothing and In SEs case I'm not sure he is guilty of even thinking of doing anything.

What surprises me that it seems that only one person in a different part of the country is actually cross breeding wolves to dogs (or at least claiming to) and no body seems that worried by them selling F1 puppies to the public (or friends).

Wolves have been cross bred to dogs for thousands of years and it has been well documented. Mr Saarloos did it to create a new breed and he himself was no expert, but enlisted the help of a geneticist. He was not known for being kind or concerned in his breeding and was well prepared to knock a pup against a wall if it had no potential. He also cross bred Jackals and dogs, kept foxs etc all in tiny cages. In the end we had a lovely, if difficult to live with (at times) breed.

I do not support the cross breeding of my favorite breed with anything, but this is a personal and emotional thing. Even if CR and SE did this project it would not be against the law. The only matter being if they had licenses to keep any licensable species on any particular property.

Even if I wanted to stop what they propose, there appears to be no moral 'law' which would enable me to do so. As for Shaun Ellis, I can understand concerns that possibly he has been led astray by a few TV production companies and some "scientists" may well not agree with his methods on principal, but I am not privy to any fact which makes me think that they are breaking any law, and if they have not applied for a DWAA license then how do you know they WILL keep wolves on this land, especially as they have not completed any purchase or lease agreement and therefore are hardly likely to have applied for any license.

In all CR seems to have been judged by a blog where he changes his mind regularly and SE by a couple of dubious docu-soaps. Why not target people who are actually importing and selling sick puppies for example or is it easier to find people readily in the public eye as figures of hate?[/QUOTE]

And equally wolfdog owner, wolf wannabe and Gnasher all seem to be avid fans of Shaun and Charlie and their schemes and probably have more to do with them than they care to admit here but its their choice and right as it is mine to investigate and make an informed choice about what they do. And if Charlie is going to "think out loud" boast what ever you choose to call it on a public forum that all can view he is very silly (to put it Politely) and must take the consequences.

Oh dear god what next, aye thats right people have objected to me applying for a DWA licence...

I know how the objections go thats all, I am NOT and never will be in favour of anyone interfering with nature in such a way as to cross wild animals with dogs or anything else for that matter...

And for the posting " oh believe me if the wolf didn't want to take she wouldn't " b...$hit, if the people involved in those breedings were so determined to cross the wolf with the GSD they dam well wouldv'e made sure it happened...

Physically perhaps, but if the wolf didn't want to catch, she damn well wouldn't. When I worked on the stud, we had to dope, twitch and hobble many mares to cover and once the vet even said to me 'You know what this is, don't you?', guess what not one of those mares took. The following year after being left barren 6 out of the 7 were scanned in foal.

And although I aimed my original comment at nobody in particular, the EBT is one of those breeds that has been very interered with by humans.

why did you not just use AI, rather than twitch, hobble and dope, doesnt sound like a very good stud...sorry,

I was thinking the same Shona...

As with all pedigree breeds of dogs they have all been crossed out crossed added to what ever to get the type looked for, these are dogs not wild animals...
Tell me more about the EBT please I'm really interested ?

Ok the only connection I have with Charlie is Zena my Saarloos x and I didn't even get her from him although he did breed her. I won't go into details of how she came to live with me because I wouldn't want to upset her previous ower.

Regretfully I do not know Shaun Ellis I wish I did and Charlie I have never met but although I haven't actually bought a dog from him ("so I've not helped fill his pockets") he has always been welcoming, friendly and helpful to me. Whenever I've asked anything of him weither a question about one of my dogs or like earlier when I asked him if he could find out how Shaun's wolf cubs were, he has always been quick and happy to help.

I wish I was involved with Shaun and Charlie's future plans because I think they are very interesting, I agree with them and what they are doing and some of you guys/gals don't (I say some because I wouldn't want to tar you all with the same brush)

So I guess we'll all have to agree to disagree. You all know how I feel about the whole subject of Shaun, Charlie and the wolfdogs, I believe I have nothing further to add so I guess I'll bid you all farewell.

thought all his dogs were adopted and went back to him in the event original adoptees couldn't keep them, mmmmm, there is another misconception about Charlie then !

That is just a stupid thing to say. Is it any reason I get so bloody fustrated on this forum when everything I write gets twisted and distorted.

I said I won't go into details, but I will say I got Zena with the full agreement from Charlie. He made very sure I knew what I was getting how she may differ from Zeus because of the wolfblood content. He already knew about Zeus and his willful ways so he knew about my experiance with large dogs.

Charlie will willingly take back any of his puppies/dogs from they're owners for whatever reason they give for being unable to keep them anymore. He can not, although I know he wishes he could, stop anyone from giving away or selling the pup he sold them. Not that long ago he actually sent a friend to buy back a wolfdog pup he had sold when he'd seen it up for sale, it is now happily settled in a new home. How many other breeders would have bothered to do that?

I'm sure you'll be able to twist everything I've written again but I just don't care anymore go ahead.

It is not an ilogical critisisim against people crossing wild animals with dogs ...

I haven't twisted anything you said, you seem to be contradicting yourself
As stated on CR's web site he has written contracts that adopters have to sign, so would point to the fact that he should be able to control where his puppies go...