100% Wolf X Dog Controversial

Wolfdogs? On another forum you said your dogs had no Wolfdog in them, or are you referring to the Saarloos that escaped and had her pup in a field, that you now keep? I mean thats only one dog and kept by you for a very short time, trust cannot be built up in such a short time can it? Or perhaps, you are referring to the bitch I asked if it had CWD in it and you said absolutely not?

Purely behavioural? You think that's the only difference between a dog and a wolf???

98.4% of the genetic material in humans and chimpanzees is identical. Do you think we should start crossing them?

If you are talking about its genetic structure, yes !! What else is a dog? A plant?

"Dogs have recently been reclassified as Canis lupus familiaris by the Smithsonian Institute (Wayne, R.K. "What is a Wolfdog?"(www.fiu.edu/~milesk/Genetics.html), placing it in the same species as the gray wolf, Canis lupus. The dog is, by all scientific standards and by evolutionary history, a domesticated wolf
(Feldhamer, G.A. 1999. Mammology: Adaptation, Diversity, and Ecology. McGraw-Hill. pg 472.).

Those who insist dogs did not descend from wolves must disprove the litany of scientific evidence that concludes wolves are the ancestors of dogs. And, as we have already established, the wolf is a carnivore. Since a dog's internal physiology does not differ from a wolf, dogs have the same physiological and nutritional needs as those carnivorous predators, which, remember, "need to ingest all the major parts of their herbivorous prey, except the plants in the digestive system" to "grow and maintain their own bodies"
(Mech, L.D. 2003. Wolves: Behavior, Ecology, and Conservation.)."

To say a dog is not a domesticated wolf is just scientific nonsense.

The virtual 2% difference between human and chimp is a lot different than the fraction of a % between dog and wolf.

And no, I do not think we should cross chimps with humans. Surprise surprise.

Even if it is just a fraction...most pet owning families can't handle that whatever fraction is wild...because they expect the wolfdog to act like a pet (as that is what they are told)...and a wolf dog doesn't act like a pet, it acts like a part of a pack, and they respond more quickly to weaknesses in the structure. It might work out well for some people, but for many others it is just a disaster waiting to happen. This is why I don't agree with the crossing of wolves or partwolves...people think they can handle it and then bad things happen..."He was always so sweet, except when ___" "He was the best dog ever, until he ____"....I see it all the time in the news. I don't think its worth the risk, especially if there are children around.

Quote:
Originally Posted by liz & kiesha
Hi Werewolf
Yes i did see that & it does concern me, it also concerns me that Ronnie is crossing with pure wolf & seems to think its fine.
When the **** hits the fan on this one, and it will, my biggest concern of all is 'wolf lookalike' dogs will all be tarred with the same brush by the public.

Oh please! Improve the breed? Crossing an un varified north american wolf to an established breed like the Czech wolfdog, based on the the species Canis Lupus Lupus, European wolf and the GSD, what does that add to the breed? Not for money? I cant stop laughing! And realy whats all this about "will drain the wolf out", blood letting like a 15 century surgeon? and as for not selling any; what about his friend Lees who claims to have one? All he is creating is another mish mash mix that no one can tell what's in it. Liz & Kiesha have a pretty valid point.

What about the physical strength differences, the bite pressure on a GSD is around 700 lbs per sq inch where as it’s about 1500 in the wolf.
Having recently spoken to some “qualified” behaviourist in the US there is great concern about children living near or with wolf dogs and hybrids. Most attacks have happened when a child has been crying or fallen over and made a high pitched scream similar to that of an animal.

But I guess as “poor Dogsey mugs” quote from Mr Richardsons Cry Wolf site we are not allowed to have an opinion or do our own research.

Well I guess from one dogsey mug to another (!) And I think I am right in saying that the last statement from the website you quoted said that any wolf x was not for sale to the public; however there appear to be others on this forum openly saying that they have imported a North American wolf and are crossing it with a Czech wolfdog. They seem happy to sell their pups to the public.

Both the Saarloos and Czech wolfdogs have a good reputation in Europe and have had up to 80 years of selected breeding in their backgrounds (saarloos) to produce a handleable dog.

I couldn't agree with you more that back yard breeders can only bring American style problems to the UK. Next we will be getting so called 'pure' wolves in cages in peoples gardens or chained up out side their houses in suburban estates.

My inuits have no wolf content and I've never denied my woldogs not having wolf in them to anyone, you just didn't ask the right questions on the H&H forum. I don't have any Czech bitches, pure or cross. The expert that you are cannot tell the difference between a Czech and a Saarloos when there is clear difference in physical appearence.

If you read properly he said he would only use a European wolf to the Czech. Drain it out by crossing the offspring back into the Czech wolfdog.

Personally, I don't agree with any 100% wolf cross wolfdog or dog being sold on the open market, they are not a pet.

Hence, they are of the same species!

So how many "Wolfdogs" do you have? You cant base all your "experience and trust" on a bitch that was imported then mated then escaped and lived wild, and one you have only had for a couple months at most? Who are the others?

Re the difference bewtween the breeds, I think I know the difference, I just told you none of yours looked like Wolves and they dont.

That is EXACTLY why they should be avoided and NOT put into animals ultimately intended to live as pets, I would of thought anybody would know that, its what makes them wild animals!!

A valuable lesson I learnt about human behaviour long ago was that they dont always do as they say, especially when money is involved.

So what happens to all the F1 crosses between the Czech and Euro-wolf and then the F1 crosses between Timber wolf and Czech and then the F2 crosses between Euro and Czech and then the F2 of Timberwolf and Czech? Thats quite a lot of un-saleable pups so far. Then we are on to the F3 generation; what makes you think that you will guarantee a stable and predictable charachter at this point? People that have been breeding wolfdogs for over a quarter of a century still tell me they cannot say with certainty how the off spring will turn out.

The other problem is that no one in the CSW world wants anything to do with this project, after all they only got the breed recognised a few years ago, so they would have to start all over again. Is the Czech wolfdog in such a poor state that it needs this kind of intervention?

I absolutely agree. As as the owner of a wolfdog for 10 years, I know for an absolute fact that very few people would have been prepared to put up with him. Which is why his breeder spent 3 years putting us through hoops before selling him to us. There are some very decent wolfdog breeders out there who will not sell a puppy to just anybody.

Bad things happen far less with wolf dogs than many other breeds. Provided you are pack leader, you will have no trouble. The problem is, as you rightly point out, there are far too many ignorant stupid people who think it is hard to have a wolf cross. Little do they know, through their ignorance, that a well bred, well raised wolf dog is the least likely of all breeds to be hard ! They make useless guard dogs, like all the northern breeds, they very rarely bark even. They are more likely to lick or roger you to death than anything else !! I am spoiled for ever more for any other type of dog. I have got the commonsense, the experience and the know how to raise a very well behaved wolfdog, and I have done so with a high %.

That may be true here gnasher, but probably only because there arent many, in the US they are figured VERY highly on the attack stats.

I see you have a Ute, is this the dog you refer too & if so are you saying there is a high percentage of wolf in your Ute?

Is this the dog you say has a high percentage wolf? http://www.dogsey.com/showthread.php?t=51272