100% Wolf X Dog Controversial

Quite. Those that want to flog puppies might not agree though!

Though I read in another place often refered to here, that the aforementioned Mr Ellis might be offering residential courses to potential new owners of wolfdog pups and a chance to learn about their requirements. Maybe its a cynical money making idea but perhaps it is the basis of a very sound idea?

Who would assess the assessors? and surely they should work for an approved organisation or body so the likes of Mr Ellis or who ever it may be could not use it as a money making scheme.

I agree it could develop into something good, I'll be watching it develop with keen interest.

Hmmmm, hoog question, of course they'd have to be a organisation of some kind, what thet'd be and who would be envolved, I don't know yet, thinking about it though. Any suggestions.

If you are talking about courses for owners and without trivialising the idea, a government body would have to appoint, by some standard, the assessor based one some acceptable standard of knowledge. A bit like your MOT tester for your car, and therefore a 'recommended fee' would have to be suggested. It would be a service and you could not expect it to be done for free. Like the MOT inspector or whoever, works under a strict license, but is also self or company employed in the free market. I think it unlikely that a totally government operated department would never see the light of day.

In the meantime if Mr. Ellis (for example) operates something similar to benefit potential owners, like a 3 day course then it would be up to the individual to decide if it offers value for money etc. All open and above board without requiring them to buy anything from him.

Just ideas folks. But it would be nice to see people better equipped to take on such animals.

It'd be nice if a lot more dog owners in general were more equipt i.e did their research before getting any dog. I could be accused of researching to much, I just can't help it, if I'm considdering getting a pet, I want to know everything about it, before I get it, to make sure it is right for me and that I can give it what it requires.

Other than the fee for the course which no doubt would have to be paid ahead of time as it was with a person I know who did a WPM course at Combe Martin. Over the 3 days there Mr Ellis didnt show up and various excuses were made by his volunteers who were left to run the course and although very polite and caring they had little knowledge of wolves other than what he had told them and admitted that they had never owned a dog! No refund was given and no responce to phone calls or written letters was ever recieved so I am sceptical about his intentions.

Sorry to hear of your friends disappointment, sounds like some explanation should have been given at least. Lets hope things improve at his new place.

The trouble with guidence on wolfdogs is that most wolf parks are anti wolfdog so would not be useful for helping potential owners; when speaking to one in the UK they spouted off their position and said how against them they were but when I asked if they had met one they replied that they had not. Not sure thats a balanced view.

I think that in the USA only Wolfpark in Indiana actually have a wolfdog and always cover the subject in their lectures on wolves; It would seem that they realise that just saying they don't like them is not going to work.

The other option is for potential owners to read books about wolfdog behaviour but as far as I know only two are available. 'AZ of wolfdogs' and 'Living with Wolfdogs' and are written by a lovely lady by the name of Nicole Wilde. If you ever get the chance to meet her you will be impressed as to how such a gentle petite lady could handle rescue wolfdogs and wolves that must be as big or bigger than she is. Her books are aimed squarely at the American market though have lots of valuable info.

Unfortunately it is difficult not to be drawn into some of the arguments posted, especially when they get personal but I commend you for your measured response to your situation.

I also love the Saarloos and Czech breeds and am uncertain as to the advantages of making all these cross breeds. As for Shaun Ellis, it was mentioned in one post (must be a few pages back) that his cross breeds or hybrids were to create a 'rent a pack' and while it sounds rediculous, I think it is just a progression of what I have previously read. I understood that in Poland the idea was to use wolf poo (for want of a better word!) and urine to create a false pack, backed up by sound recordings of real wolf howls. This false pack idea would be used as a deterent to keep wolves out of a certain area and reduce livestock predation. As I understood it the latest idea was to make a real pack of several wolf hybrids, the dog content to make the animals more manageable or trainable. By positioning these animals in one area they would keep wild wolves out of farming area. Anyway thats how I understood the idea. The idea of research into canine urine scent marking was also part of a long term university study in the USA and was carried out on African Wild dogs. The idea, I think, was to isolate the scent that they used for marking territory, to enable control of packs for their own preservation. I am not sure of the outcome or if that study has ended. Either way, anything that would help endangered wild animals would be great.

Your Spannish lessons sounded fantastic; we really have no idea what it is like to still live close up to wild wolves. It would be nice to hear the stories.

Yet if the cross had never been made in the first place, we wouldn't have the two wonderful breeds such as the Saarloos and Czach wolf dog today...

Now I personally don't see a problem in this, he has already said he won't be selling the offspring on the open market and will drain the wolf out. His reasons for doing this are not money orientated, it's to improve the breed.

Clearly someone who has not ever met a Saarloos or CsV. I'd trust my wolfdogs more than my mothers JRT's! She's been bitten three times by her two boys. I've not ever had one of my dogs even growl at me over food, bones, e.t.c A very misunderstood breed. Mention wolf and those without the knowledge suddenly think that they're man eaters.

The 'Saarloos' and 'Czech' 'wolf' dogs that are currently available in the U.K are a world apart from 100% wolf/dog hybrids.

I'd agree there, but it is due to the Saarloos having a small gene pool and having several health issues. Just as L Saarloos attempted to improve the GSD with wolf blood they are expanding the gene pool and reducing the risk of health issues by introducing fresh blood.

Shaun Ellis - not money orientated???

But they have already said they are not selling the offspring on the open market to Joe Public until the wolf blood is drained out.

Why the use of 'Hybrid' all the time? The wolf and the dog are of the same species.

If you'd read my post thoroughly then you'd realise I was not talking about SE.

I really hope you're right. But the breeding of dogs and wolves is highly unpredictable and we could see similar problems to those seen in the U.S.A.

Wolves are of the same genus as dogs (canis) but they are a different species: the wolf is canis lupus, the dog is canis familiaris.

NOT TRUE !! They were reclassified at the end of the 20th century as being the same species ... canis lupus familiaris. They share 99.8% dna, the fraction of a % difference in the DNA is purely behavioural.

Dogs are domesticated wolves, pure and simple.