"New" NI breed standard, anyone care to discuss, co my head is spinning!!

If you are talking to me I hate the way this "breed" has been developed and the way that it seems the health and conformation does not seem to be a consideration but I do not hate anything nor anyone particularly the poor dog who have no say in the matter at all. There is a difference between not liking the result of this sort of breeding and hating the dogs themselves.

I can see where both Arthur and Lunakitty are coming from. My dogs have been criticized on this very thread. Whilst everyone is entitled to their opinion, I think people must remember that is is simply that, an opinion. I bought my dogs as pets, whether they conform to any standard does not bother me. They are healthy, happy dogs and much loved members of the family, their wellbeing and happiness is what matters to me, not whether they live up to a bunch of ideals that person/s have put together.

I am not saying that all people who have spoken on this thread are anti NID, but some appear to be.....all breeds have problems and all breeds have variations, somehow this doesn't seem to count. I remember when Mick put a post on with pics of his chosen breed, there were variations in that breed just as there is in the NID. Bad examples and good examples. It happens in every breed.

I really wish I had time to go through everyone's posts and put up an example...I referenced everyone because there are only a small handful of people that are non-NI owners that even remotely seem to respect the NI owners and their opinions. They may not exactly LIKE the breed, but they at least are not flat out rude about issues dealing with NIDs

I'm pretty much used up on this thread, but I *would* like to say that I read Lunakitty's message above and mistook her sig as part of the post...

It seems to me that the loudest detractors here are those that are not, actually, anything to do with the NI breed at all. Yes, there are issues but certainly too there are issues with other breeds. I ask again, *why* can you not all back off and let things be while *we*, as the people affected, try to sort things. Nothing you do or say here can have any effect on what the breed, breeders or owners do in the future other than to increase the problem load. If, as many of you profess, the dogs are all you are interested in (and I recognise the health issues that are your concern), then please, for their sake if no other, let those of us actually *involved* in the situation and possibly able to do something about it come to grips with it.



Arthur

Its all been said before...this is about the point that we start banging our heads on the wall in frustration....good job for trying, though.

so are you saying unless you own an NI dog you dont have the right to an opinion?

I think if thats the feeling poss NI owners should stick to NI sites, that way no one but NI people will have a view.

An opinion is one thing, This is way over the top and is not really the worst of it. An example... I don't own dogs that have a serious attack history, but I am certainly not going to pillory anyone that wants to, nor am I going to suggest or call for the breed be "put to bed" either.


As I said, a little reciprocity here would be appreciated. You may not like the people involved with the NIS, you may not agree with what they have done, are doing or intend to do but really, it is not your problem, it's ours. Opinions yes. Constructive criticism yes. Outright and blatant nastiness, save it for the playground, eh? I hate to throw your own words back at you, but "Many people believe that they are thinking, when they are merely re-arranging their prejudices"


Arthur


PS - maybe we should stick to the NI only sites, a pity then that were that to happen, you would still find a reason to nip in and see what we are doing and what you can do about it. So we'd stick to our place but you wouldn't, eh?

And here was me thinking it was the NIS that were blinkered, how wrong I was! I feel I owe them an apology now - having seen what they are up against I find it remarkable that they have the heart to keep on in the face of this blatant animosity.

To be honest I have little understanding of the breed standards and all the more techy stuff and I own a NI so I look to people like Borderdawn, Shona and the others to explain it to me as they have a greater knowledge and dont have a vested interest and rose tinted glasses on and nothing to gain.

wow you really have a ticket on yourself,

but for my part, NO I WILL not follow over there and stick my nose in,

Well in the grand scheme of things the NI "originals" have only themselves to blame, having publicly said they used "Dogweb" to promote the NI only, its fell right back in their face, they should of allowed for people who dont tolerate cruelty, bad breeding practices and no health testing all in the name of money!

I dont think thats a good idea myself I am on loads of sites and all of them have advice on different things, just because we own NI's doesn't mean we have to get into arguements.
I only get involved when something really riles me but apart from that I sit and watch.

Dawn, with all due respect what you have said ref bad practices etc, I am sure this happens in most breeds, lets face it money changes people, including the idea of making it. Yes, it is sad:-( I wonder how many people out there whom breed dogs do it because they are genuine, caring people who love dogs? Of course some are decent ethical breeders but I wonder about the majority....

I've typed essay-style responses to a few NI threads, particularly those concerned with inbreeding a few months ago. I like many of the dogs, and don't have a problem with the breed as such. I do, however, have an issue with the reluctance of some groups to embrace the help of other groups, knowledgeable individuals and experts. I was thrilled when one group organised a genetics talk, and I believe that one group's Code of Ethics was altered to accept a certain amount of out-crossing as a result. This kind of thing is FABULOUS! I just don't understand why it can't happen here?

I'm sure not everyone who's au fait with breed standards and conformation is opposed to the NI? Even the KC or an established breed club - wouldn't asking them for advice be beneficial, even if official recognition isn't being sought? With the right advice and plenty of discussion between the committee and members to decide the desired type, it wouldn't matter if people on forums criticised it. The individual clubs/societies would be confident that they were doing the right thing, would have researched breed standards/construction thoroughly, and as a result, wouldn't have to worry that people disconnected didn't agree.

I'm sure there are knowledgeable people who would be willing to discuss formulating a coherent breed standard with any of the NI groups - they may not have even heard of the breed before, but that might even be a positive thing - starting afresh. I don't know much about breed standards, but I know a bit more about drawing dogs, and like others, I'm willing to help in any way I can.

I believe this is a great example of someone who is being constructive in their thoughts and advice, unbiased, helpful post. Thank you.

Im sure some of it happens in other breeds Nes I dont deny it, but a developing one? by committe members and those supposed to be at the front of the whole thing? and not just once of course!

One can see you have terrier blood... can you not let it go? Forget the personalities for heaven's sake! If we were all to dig around I can guarantee every breed in the world will have skeletons in the closet. So? It's the future that's important, not the past. It cannot have escaped anyone's notice that it has taken 14 pages of this topic to get a sensible and constructive post about a way forwards...

Arthur


Arthur

I still stand by this as this is MY opinion Arthur! If you have taken a disliking to it that is your problem not mine.

As long as my breed is being dragged down by NI's I WILL be actively involved in discussions about them.

My anger is not with the dogs and owners its with the breeders that show a basic lack of doggy knowledge!

Gemmsie
x

I cant see a future Arthur, with people breeding fom puppies with "bad backs" and saying it "helped" them, people having "accidental" litters regularly, people with cruelty convictions and think people are thick enough to believe they have been suing the RSPCA for 20yrs etc etc.. it goes on and on and these are the people the newcomers should look up to and respect? Do you?

How exactly is your breed being dragged down by NI's.
Ni's are being bred to NI nowt else is being used!

Gemma, I have to agree with Jem, how do my dogs drag your dogs down?