German Shepherds - English v German? Controversial

I would love to see your pictures of Lacey. Perhaps you can post a link to your site Muddiwarx because when I try to access it via dogsey it tells me it can't be found. Unfortunately although I have lots of photos of Tess they were not taken with a digital camera so I don't think I can share them.

Moobli no major reason why I didn't get a Foxfold. I decided to arrange some time off work to be with my puppy and although a Foxfold litter was due the pups would have needed a home rather earlier than I could manage. I was also quite taken with the looks of the Kazeti line. However, perhaps a quieter dog would have suited me better on reflection.
I used to do working trials with Tess (my Foxfold) for a short time. We only entered two trials. She qualified CD and won her first trial and in the second one she got up after 91/2 minutes in the downstay! I stopped doing it because I was concerned about the the effect the agility part would have on her joints - it's a long way down from a 6 foot scale and she always jumped the whole way. I am hoping to do some obedience in the future with Tala when she settles down a bit.

Horand SV1(first dog registered with the SV in Germany)

USA show type(& yes there is one in the UK)

English show type from the 1960s(BIS @ Crufts winner)

More recent English type(UK CH)

Show German lines bred in the UK in the 1980s(UK CH)

Germany type from Germany in 1980s mixture of working/showlines

21st century Show German type(VA2 Timo)

Foxfold LC GSDs website
Current German working type
(in Germany-please note this dog has NO inbreeding in his 5 generation pedigree(unlike so many show types & also so many of the"working"obedience UK dogs)

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This was Lacey - aka Foxfold Tomboy

Sorry all pretty awful pics

is that kazeti (derbyshire way). moobli i always wondered where you got that cute pup from
decided against there as they weren't working pups, cute tho.

Lacey's a beautiful girl and quite a character going by the pictures. I love her fairy dress! Tess was considerably darker than Lacey - almost pure black with just little tan eyebrows and paws when we got her although, of course, she got lighter as she grew.

Epilepsy:
According to Hein 1987 (primary epilepsy. GSD League Handbook pages 39-42) the following dogs were known to have produced one or more cases of epilepsy;
Asoka Cherusker, Archer of Brinton, Arch Duke of Rozavel, Allegro of Seacroft, Barry v Status Quo,Derby vd Schinklergrenz, Druidswood Consort, Eclipse of Evely, Ferdl & Ilk vd Eschbacker Klippen, Fant vd Wienarau, Fenton of Kentwood, Gorsefield Granit, Hendrawens Sagitarius, Hendrawens Syrious Norge, Joll v Bemholt, Kenmils Valiant, Lorenz of Charavigne, Ludwig of Charavigne, Lummel v Haus Goldschmeid, Nestor v Haus Musshafen, Orsof v BuseckerSchloss, Rengar Dambuster, Rothick Echo, Rozavel Rob Roy, Royvons Red Rum, Sparticist of Hendrawen, Tramellas Insbrook Jonty, Unisca Ricardo, Vikkas Tanfield Caro, Verus vd Ulmer.
According to Willis 1991 (the German Shepherd Dog; A Genetic History pg 21 the following dogs produced fitters;
Astan Luke, Hendrawens Charade of Charavigne, Typhoon of Dawnway, Delridge Erhard, Conrad of Dukedene, Evelys Prince Charlie, Fuerstenkrone Condor, Lex of Glanford, Hendrawens Renaissance of Pipersmead, Bragi of Huesca, Lornaville Ambassador, Marlish Royal Charter, Ramacon Swashbuckler, Ramacon Philanderer, Renygar Desperado of Tramella, Vikkas Scipio av Hvitsand.
This list is not exhaustive just the well known dogs, others have produced fitters aswell, and also just because you have 1 or 2 of these in a line does not mean it will be a fitter, again its like most genetic conditions its the level of inbreeding on these dogs.
My stepson had a dog linebred to Tarquin who had seizures.
Pam

Dwarfism:
According to Willis 1991 important dogs known to 'carry' Pituitary Dwarfism;
Atstan Impresario, Dunmonaidh Junker, Warro vd Fichtenspitze, Hero v Grundel, Norbo v Grundel, Hasenway Putz, Iolanda Tell, Karlstadt Tumblin Dice, Persian War of Marlish, Masuta Piaute, Middross Sonny, Gundo vd Mordschau, Prima Zorba, Rosetown Jack, Sansarc Navigator, Shootersway Persephone, Nickel v Unterhain, Uran v WildsteigerLand.

So again a mix of lines.

hemangiosarcoma;
every other GSD dies from this in Australia in the lines linebred to Masuta Piaute.

Could someone put up pics of the current `types` in an ordinary pose? The `show stance` exaggerates the slope of the back so much.
Daisy is my first Fluffy - until I got her I didn`t like long-coats. Someone told me she`s like the Lornaville line, but I`ve no way of knowing that. But underneath all that fluff is the same dog! Now I suspect that there are good and bad examples of each type. (I`ve had a difficult dog from German lines and a sweetheart from English stock. )

Bear in mind they are on a hill with a steep gradient both WG showline. will have a look for some more

WG showline pup

This is Lornaville line male I had 16yrs ago only his head sorry scanner not working to upload other.


this is English mix show/work from the 80's

Hi,

When I bought Zane I couldn't afford his pedigree but was told he came from one of the main working lines. i was more interestes in him as a pet so this didn't bother me too much (not least because I didn't have the money to pay for it).

He is completely horizontal across his back. No slope down towards his tail at all - not even a little bit.

I've been told by my vet that he's less likely to have the same problems with his back legs as a lot of GSDs because of this, but until he's much older (will be a year old on Xmas Day), how will I know for sure? isn't it down to genetics rather tan physical appearance whether joint/leg problems occur?

Laura xx

The slope of a dogs back has nothing to do with hip scores....in fact Germanic GSD's have more slope but on average better hip scores so I think your vet needs to do some research!
Yes genetics are the main factor hence why all breeding stock should be hip scored.
I am puzzled as to why you couldn't afford his pedigree....it costs very little(approx £9 but pls someone put me right on the exact cost) to register a puppy with the KC .Reputable breeders register all their puppies and then endorse them selling all the pups with their papers.I would have concerns about a breeder who registers puppies then charged more if you wanted a puppy with its papers.
If you want to have your pups hips checked you can have them scored ...but its not cheap:-(

i think i really do like the german working type

esp for moobli
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/433533.html

There is a girl at my club from germany who has a import bitch called Iska, she is amazing, ive never seen drive like it!!!! So small though just abit bigger than flynn, but so so powerful like a bullet, she would easily take someone down

i LOVE this dog

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/494014.html

for size & shape, for myself ticks all the boxes

I'm finding this thread very interesting, and the pics of comparisons between the different lines quite illuminating!

My own dog Cox is West German working lines, with a small touch of DDR way back in his pedigree. Here he is in a Cox natural stance:

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/571614.html
I do know a dog who is english working trials lineswith a little schutzhund dog also in his pedigree from the Norshep kennel. Here is his pic in natural stance:



Does anyone know anything about the Norshep lines?

Especially for Moobli, here is the pedigree of Ashley zet Eurosportu at Nyrvana (longcoat), which we were talking about. Unfortunately no pic of Ashley herself, but you can see what her parents look like:

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/526949.html

Keep the pics and comparisons coming - this is a good, constructive thread so far.

This is another dog which I saw in the flesh and liked a lot. He is Kobold vom Karthago, mixed german working lines, now in training for schutzhund:

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/541775.html

This is Tala