German Shepherds - English v German? Controversial

I hope this topic doesn't create huge arguments, but instead offers opinions and information on the different types of German Shepherd available in the UK today. I, for one, am very interested to learn all I can about the different health and temperament issues with the different types.

How many different types are there in the UK? I know of the English show lines, the English obedience lines, European working lines (but understand there are all different types within these lines), German show lines.

I have both an English obedience lines (Foxfold/Sorumour) bitch (longcoat) and a German show line (Kazeti) dog (longcoat). Neither are what I would consider to be exaggerated, although the bitch has a very straight topline, whereas the male has a slight angulation.

I was told today by a very experienced German shepherd breeder that certain ailments, ie Spondylosis (from which my bitch suffers) and DM, are relatively unheard of in German lines but are, unfortunately, very common in old English lines. Has anybody any info or experience of this?

Would love to hear everyone's opinions and experiences - without the thread resorting to a slanging match please

Would you be able to put pics up to show the differences? Sorry to be a pain, I know which ones I like, but I'm clueless as to which is which!

As much as i can work out

There are

English Show lines
German show lines
Obedience lines
English Working lines
German/European working Lines
Pet lines

& a mix of all the above.

My favs are Ob lines (usually large & fluffy)& the small drivey GSDs that a few people have imported (usually small & dark Bi Colours)

Thios is archie, he is a mix of English Working lines & European Working lines





This is Morti who is very similar to the above dog in breeding





This is winnie who is pet lines with some working behind her

I would def opt for a german line rather than an English show line.
Its the back and the hind legs i just dont like, although i am no expert at all.

Interesting thread....I would love a GSD one day...but it is a confusing subject!!!

Ooh all lovely dogs!

I think the working lines are more my sort of GSD, they strike me as being fitter and perhaps closer to the way the GSD should be (waiting for Joedee to shoot me down ).

I do like the black and tan the best though, probably because of your namesake "Moobli"! ;-)

I was interested to read that you have a Foxfold/Sorumour bitch Moobli. My last shepherd was a Foxfold and because she was a longcoat and a bit smaller than usual sometimes she was mistaken for a cross collie. She lived to be almost 15 years of age and was healthy all her life. I have found my present Kazeti girl to be much more energetic and more difficult in some ways to train but that may well be the individual rather than that the fact that she is from a show line. I was told by a breeder that the German bitches do tend to be more feisty.

Who were her parents? My shepherd was a Foxfold and so totally fab I have been unable to have another GSD yet We lost her 4 and a 1/2 years ago

Her mother was Foxfold Dark Blue Delinquent and her father was Major Force. She was a very special girl and I lost her two years ago at Christmas. I still get upset when I think about her and I can understand why you are finding it hard to think of getting another.

Hi Moobli not sure exactly what you want to know but will give you some info I have.

ED: very few English have their elbows score you get the occaisional 1 from English workline or Obed line score so it is difficult to compare.
The majority elbow scored are WG showline you get 2 or 3 a quarter with a grade on their elbows but most are 0 scored, unfortunately one of mine as a grade 3 elbows.
ED and HD dont correlate with each other you can have a dog with 0:0 hips and bad elbows (like mine) but you can also have dogs with severe hd and clear elbows.
HD: most high and excessive scores come from English lines all type, most(98%) WG showline are under 24, with thousands under 10.
OCD shoulders etc I dont hear in the WG lines, I have had English showlines with it.
Heamangio all lines.
HC English showlines
Epilepsy predominately English show/work/pet lines only occaisionaly in German lines.
EPI predominately English
Skin problems all lines inbred with genetic bottlenecks no matter what line.

Anything else just ask.

I am hoping someone else will do this, as I don't have a broadband connection, and so uploading pics to photobucket takes me AGES :-( Dyane (JoedeeUK) may have some to send, as I think she has sent similar pics to other threads. Dyane?

I particularly like Morti - he is just gorgeous. Now if he only had a longcoat .... ;-)

Just from your comments, I am thinking you may be getting English showline confused with German-line English show dogs?

Moobli was an English showline ... but back in the late 70s/early 80s and so a rather different sort of dog to the type you see in the show ring today.

I love the working lines, but am a sucker for a longcoat - although I know a breeder who has a couple of longcoat working lines so may have a work line longcoat in the future

Oh wow - our Lacey was from Foxfold Dark Blue Delinquent and her Dad was Karjo Kiefer - I think HIS Dad was Major Force!!! Any pics of your girl - loads of mine "Lacey" on her page onmy website!!!

We both must have great taste :-D A Foxfold (although mine is technically a Sorumour) and a Kazeti

My bitch has never been mistaken for anything other than a GSD. Her sire was Foxfold Vagabond and her dam was Maggie Might at Sorumour. Both English obedience lines. I adore Flame and she is a wonderful pet, but was always a bit too laid back for working trials which I had hoped to do with her. She is suffering from spondylosis at only 7 years old, but it would be marvellous if she was as long-lived as your Foxfold.

I have found Yogi (so far) to be more energetic and driven than Flame - which is just what I was looking for, so I am happy.

Could I ask why you didn't go back to Foxfold for another pup? You can PM me if you don't wish to discuss it on the public forum. My reasons really are as above. I wanted a dog that had plenty of get up and go, was a longcoat and would (hopefully) fulfil my dreams of doing working trials. So far, so good. I can't fault Sorumour (or Foxfold) at all, and would have definitely have gone back to Sorumour if I had wanted another laidback family pet

Is it really 4 and 1/2 years ago Julie??? :-( I can confirm that Julie's bitch, Lacey (who was Flame's auntie) was one in a million. A wonderful girl. She is sorely missed by all who had the pleasure of knowing her.

Thanks for all the info Wildmoor, it makes very interesting reading.

It is And we miss her EVERY SINGLE day ....... I found her Santa hat last week when we were sorting out Christmas stuff ..... was nice to find as it still had Lacey fur on it.

Awww. I am sure she is still with you in spirit.