Wolf dog shot in head General Chat

Dont hold your breath!!!

Im afraid if you are "extremely happy" with standards like this, its me thats very dissappointed.
http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Pq27Ts10
Isnt that "Sacuta" the one she thinks the world of? I wouldnt keep a dead rat like that! Looks at te crap and filth up their legs and on their feet and they are INSIDE!

You may not be aware but when a bitch has a cesar, she OFTEN doen NOT recognise the pups as her own, I went through this with Maryann who also clearly has little basic knowledge of this, the reason the muzzle was on was so she didnt hurt her puppies while they were feeding them, she didnt however at any point attack them, it was purely for peace of mind. You will see as time has gone on, rather than just using the muzzle when feeding them, the bitch has developed a bond with her pups and now lives very happily with them and the muzzle is not necessary at any time. This is common practice from people who are concerned for their puppies welfare and try to ensure any "accidents" dont occur, believe me, even if you were 6 inches from a bitch and it snapped at its pup, it could kill it, safety is best in such circumstances.

with all due respect, you can't prove that their feet became dirty inside their run...nearly every time my husky spends more than 15 minutes in the back yard, her feet turn to the lovely shade of brown/black...depending on which area of the yard she decided to dig a new hole.

Look at my poor mistreated filthy pup after 5 minutes of being alone in the yard after it rained.

clearly, dirty feet = abuse/neglect

If you wanted to see some pictures of byb who really doesn't care about their dogs, you can email me.

That being said, the issue is not that this man cannot keep a clean stall for the dogs, but that he lacks the proper judgment needed by a breeder (especially since he claims to be an expert). 7 bitches is a lot of dogs to acquire at one time. Especially since they are all going to be nervous/scared of their new surroundings, what was his plan for socializing all of those bitches? I can't imagine that he has a job other than breeding, because socializing 7 new bitches would be quite time consuming...unless he just didn't care. In addition to his new 7 bitches, he has other dogs...they need time and attention too, especially if all those dogs get walked everyday (as claimed). I am curious as to whether the 7 bitches get walked as well, or if they are too wild to be worked with. Must be a nice life to be traded off, mated, and locked up/muzzled...I guess we all know what the alternative is, re:title of the thread.

Breeding them immediately was a dumb thing. I am glad that he (publically) recognizes it. But considering how large of a mistake this was, I am curious to see what other mistakes he has been hiding from the general public (you know, concerned about how "distressed" we would be--I guess that's one way of putting it).

Does what you keep your dog in look like the front of that kennel?

Would you keep your dogs like this?
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f331/sansorrella/Julieskennels11.jpg
Great view for the poor things eh?

How about these conditions for a lactating bitch? Wringing wet, feaces trodden into the floor, filthy dirty "water bowl" in the corner.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v671/suendai/118_1807.jpg

I was very happy to see her without a muzzle. My concern over the muzzle was that I saw it on for longer periods than I felt was necessary.

Absolutely not! :-(

Taken from the site in question

"Zsazsa did indeed eat her pups but only after they had died of starvation"

I don't wish to cause any trouble or stir the pot at all, but is this normal? I know that in a caesar a bitch can reject her puppies as she hasn't actually whelped and doesn't accept them, and that she can and sometimes will kill them. As a few have said this is quite common, but if she didn't kill them, and they starved to death as CR has said, was she just not feeding them? Is this also common?

Sorry if this raises more questions, but as someone who doesn't breed (and has no intention of) then I don't know the full ins and outs of problems with whelping/puppies etc. I wish to add, I am NOT saying that there is anything suspect with the bitch eating her puppies/them dying of starvation, I am just trying to understand.

as for the runs, I have seen much worse...and though the other picture is concerning...I, too, have been guilty of leaving the ****-duties until the last minute every once and a while. The water bowl looks like it’s pretty large, and if you look at the water, it is clean. Were you the one to take those pictures? Did you know exactly what was happening at the time of those pictures? If you had evidence with dates for periods of time, I would be more worried. Do you have dates? do you have, say, a consecutive week's worth of pictures? a months? No one really knows what was happening in that picture. It could have just been one bad picture, ****-duty day...The only real concern I have for the pictures is that the nails on the dogs are too long. But having a vizsla who refuses to allow anyone to touch her paws, I know that trimming nails can be an exhausting and stressful activity...so we try to do it as little as possible.

I think you are just looking to find the worst pictures possible to make a case, but in all actuality, I have seen worse. I am in a profession that relies on having specific data with measurable behaviors and evidence. a snapshot that I don't know when it was taken, where it was taken, why it was taken, if that is an everyday thing, or maybe once a month...there is no proof, at least to those of us that are on the other side of the world. All it is, is "he said, she said".

However, getting back to the topic. There is evidence of him shooting a dog. There is a confession that he lied to everyone. There is evidence of him mating 7, hardly settled, feral/semi-feral bitches…of which, the pups don’t seem to be having a good track record.

The only reason I am defending this is because you all are hypocrites. You bash JK for countless things, but when there is also evidence of the other side doing just as bad, OH NO, god-forbid you question them...just hand over the sympathy and create excuses. I was actually surprised to see that there are some of the people that supported this man, start to question it. I don't care if you are for or against JK, but at the very least have the decency to respect your views as they pertain to ALL breeders, not just the ones you don't like.

I have heard of people hand rearing pups...I wonder why that wasn't possible in this case.

There seems to be a catalogue of unfortunate episodes with these girls. ZsaZsa was the most feral bitch, was repeatedly mated to a strange dog in a strange place very soon after coming into this country - plus they subsequently learned that she had had a bad experience with a dog attack. Maybe everything became too much for her. :-(

Anyone else would've hand reared the puppies themselves, rather than know the puppies would starve to death...surely !

The scottish co ordinator made the statement to me about the puppy bucket...her words were " jk uses a puppy bucket, I mean have you ever saw jk with a patchy " I do not have a witness to this conversation with her as with a lot of the things she has said to me and I know how you all like evidence, but I have no reason to lie

I couldn't agree more! It seems a bit crazy that people seem to divide themselves into supporters of JK or supporters of CR/SC when there appears to be ample evidence that neither camp have anything to recommend them. All this new controversy achieves for me is to further convince me that there are no innocent parties amongst "wolf-lookalike -dog" breeders, and that the best thing that could happen is that they should all stop breeding immediately and concentrate on the care of the dogs they have already irresponsibly brought into the world.

Mick

Same could be said for all breeds though Mick :-(

whats stopping Charlie putting his view over on this forum?

two very good posts and valid points, having hand reared my last litter myself {not due to an aggressive bitch may I add} I can say hand on heart for two weeks it took 20 hours of my day to do so, after the first 2 weeks things got better but it still took up most of my day untill they were 5 weeks old. I can only assume the reason others would not do this, would be the time and effort involved, again imo people spread themselfs a bit to thin on the ground when they mass produce pups

Having human contact from that very young age may well have made those dead puppies the best saraloos yet, we will never know...
I would not allow pups to starve and go about business as usual, just screams the breeder has no conscience ? no love for the animals ...

I have seen a patchy puppy born at Julies, and we both tried to keep tucking her back into mums belly but the bitch kept pushing her out, as often happens with a newborn litter, mum will push out a pup if she knows there is something wrong, its happened to me on a couple of occasions, people still like the ink marked dogs , what would be the benefit in drowning one, as well as it is an awful practise, as it happens, I have never bred a patchy pup either, does that mean Im accused of the same thing. Plus if I thought for one minute that Julie would do such a thing, I would never speak to her again and would be the first to report her. I was chuckling earlier at Martins post on how we shouldnt believe every little bit of hearsay we read on the internet, isnt that exactly what everyone who contributed to the JK thread on crywolf did, what bloody hypocrisy.

Again you have just shown your lack of knowledge and your delight in spreading malicious untrue rumours - Jess has never been in a crate in her life. She was thin due to the particular line she was from and in fact was a damn site fatter than she was when I got her.

It was Reba that was put in a cage when you visited as she was unreliable and I it would have been irresponsible of me to leave her loose and risk her biting - in hindsight maybe I should have let her out. If you were concerned about the length of time she was in the cage then maybe you shouldn't have stayed so long!

Very informative post Mini, thank you