Wolf dog shot in head General Chat

i am sorry i was just trying to set the record straight as i cant get on the cry wolf forum to deffend myself from being slatted

I've just read through part of this thread (not all sorry)

I've seen a few dogs shot in the head / face.

Breaks my heart but providing it is quick and 'justified'...... I have no problem with it.

Perhaps I'm thinking about working dogs here but I'd sooner see a dog PTS quickly by a skilled gun owner than see a re-homed problem dog cause problemsa to an unsuspecting family.

Don't be sorry - I really think you need to contact Charlie directly and thrash it out with him. I really don't know what has gone on here - you left, there were accusations. That's all that's been established so it's all rather confusing really.

my leaving had nothing to do with the dogs or how charlie runs things
i left because of the no time off the lack of holidays....ect my leave was shortend due to us having differences

hes not going to listen to me and what ever i say will be used against me to slate me even more on the forum.
i have not spread any lies or rumours about charlie or his dogs i have no problem with him and was hoping we would part and go our seperate ways, move on and get on with our lifes, i came on here in hope to try and set the record straight, i dont know where the trouble making has come from but it wasnt me but unfortunatly its my word against someone elses

I agree again...my thoughts exactly.

I have no idea about all the NIS stuff etc and people being out to get people within breeds...but I am concerned about these bitches and this breeding scheme.

From what I, as a total outsider can see, these bitches that jhave been imported to set up a breeding programme in the UK have not been researched very well. When researching buying a dog every effort should be made to ensure the original breeder is superb and top quality, especially if the bitches are to be used to set up a new and countrywide breeding programme.I alos wonder who in their right mind would sell 7 adult bitches to the same person?? The bitches bought in should have had fantastic pedigrees and temperaments. They didn't. That, IMO was irresponsible and smacks of someone buying in bulk and buying quick to make a cheap buck. I know it says on the site this wasn't about money as the pups were going to be kept...but I wonder for how long and for what purpose? I suspect they were being kept to breed from or to be sold on later as breeding stock, either way, no matter what is said money is the problem.

From what I can see from here and the other site, these bitches have been bought from one breeder, they came with problems and were then bred from almost immediately...how can all of this man's supporters think this is a good idea? I wonder who can tell me who the best breeders of Sarloos are in Europe? Who breeds the dogs with the best pedigrees, temperament and health? Were these bitches sourced from those breeders and if not why not?

I do not know any decent breeders in any breed that would sell 7 adult bitches to a commercial breeder.

I freely admit I have a problem with people breeding solely for money...and I have that problem because of things like this.

I do not and have never had a problem with these dogs, I think they look amazing and I do admire them, but I was concerned about them being introduced here and this is one of the many reasons why. I am sure your dogs are wonderful. I am sure you are a decent and caring owner that has researched the breed.

I disagree. It is small breeders who know the breed inside out and back to front that save breeds and ensure quality dogs in a breed. Commercial breeders look to profit, not furthering the breed.

I agree with Mini here but I stand back form all the NI comments on here as I don't think it's relevant to this thread...the NI has nothing to do with the introduction of Sarloos into this country.
I hope, for the breed, that there are people, somewhere, quietly importing a pup to breed from at some point in the future from dogs with known temperaments and health from wonderful breeders. I hope that those people will raise their new pet in their homes and talk to all of those people out there that have owned Sarloos for a very longtime. I hope that they go on develop quality lines in this country and vet the new owners of their puppies like puppy owners have never been vetted before. That surely, is how it should be done, rather than bulk buying and breeding?

It is a real worry that we are bringing and breeding dogs of questionable temperament into the country, and selling them to the general public. They are bound to get into the wrong hands.

Bob it would appear some people are using you to score brownie points. Maryann Bingham implied you had told her that Charlie shot the dog and thats why you left and that he was evil and cruel. Maryann Bingham is supposed to be the rescue co-ordinator for the NIS but if this sort of stirring is normal then its a position that needs to be addressed.

I think if you telephoned Charlie he would listen to you. Im sorry you got dragged into it, but perhaps Maryann is the person you also need to contact as she is the one spreading the apparent lies about you.

I dont want to turn this into a NI thread but just felt I had to mention the allegedly JK has a 'puppy bucket' for all the pups which do not meet her high standards such as patch pups and this is well known in NI circles. So she certainly shouldn't be held up as a paragon of breeding practices:?

In response to the original issue of this thread - I believe in certain circumstances dispatching an animal with a single shot to the head is probably the most humane thing to do. I don't understand why other people find it so abhorant?

The end result is the same and I would think it is far quicker and less stressful for the animal.

What I find disgusting are the irresponsible actions that led to the whole sorry situation in the first place. I am also very concerned as to the fate of the bitch that escaped and has had her pups in what is essentially a wild environment.

I find the whole in group / out group, competitive, backbiting, bitching behaviour of the "wolfy looking" dog breeders completely ridiculous and from an outsiders point of view it seems that:

a) Regardless of which camp you are in there are obvious problems with the planning / organisation / ethics of the breeding programmes - to varying degrees.
b) Money is often the main priority with the long and short-term welfare of the dogs a poor second place.
c) Dishonesty has been rife and even if you are a reputable breeder who is trying to do the right thing now, you would be in an impossible situation due to what has gone on in the past.
d) It is inevitably the dogs who suffer.

So now we know that Charlie didn't do the shooting himself! Progress! As to the rest, I have two of Charlie's dogs and I am delighted with them, the back up service I have received, and the general husbandry standards.

I know Charlie, I know his dogs, I have visited his kennels and spoke to him in detail about various aspects of the breed. I have met several dogs he has bred other than my own, so I feel well placed to form a judgement on him and his set up.

If others want to form judgements on a person and a breed with none of that knowledge, based on internet tittle tattle and a gut reaction to the term 'wolfdog', so be it. Not my way of doing things.

I suppose one of the costs of conducting things out in the open, as he does, is the comeback you get from the bitter, the twisted, and the instantly judgemental.

Actually I think you are wrong I am one of those people who are on no ones sides and will admit if I am wrong and changed my view.

After starting and reading through this thread I can see the case for shooting her against calling a vet out. I work at a vets and recently had my own dog PTS so see many dogs going peacefully so was quite stuck on my own view. But threads like this open up peoples minds and I feel I have changed my point of view on wether she should of been shot.

My only other worry is why was she bred in the 1st place,and what will happen to the escaped one?

If you reread this thread and look at how many judgemental people who have never met Charlie, one of his dogs, or any wolfdog, have jumped on him and call him and his dogs for everything, I think that demonstrates my point. It's an internet thing. People get a tiny snippet and immediately become experts. Then someone quotes them and it becomes self-perpetuating...

I think you will find most of them people are from the NIS and have a cross to bear on JKs behalf.
But everyone is entitled to their opinion which is why Dogsey I feel is the best platform for these debates.

Im sorry, i know i wasnt going to post anymore, mainly because Im sick of the arguments, but this one quote, is to my mind one of the most singularly stupid remarks I have ever heard and agood example of what tittle tattle and hearsay can turn in to. I wont stand by and let you say such awful things about a person you have no personal knowledge of, Ive heard this stupid rumour before, and I am well aware of where it came from, I can categorically state, there isnt or ever was a 'puppy bucket'.
Seems to me that the only folk that arent jumping on the bandwagon here are the NI folk.

My own concern for the dogs has come about by what I have read in the diary, i.e. when the bitches came here, how soon they were bred from, the problems that he has had with them and facts like they were all feral to some degree, and the fact that one escaped to give birth 'somewhere'.

Another way of looking at conducting things in the 'open' with a diary and webcam showing beautiful puppies playing is it could be a great marketing tool.

Martin - It's just a thought and I obviously don't know much at all about the situation with Bob, other than what I've read, but have you thought about this 'other breeder' and was this person being truthful about Bob?

Also, please could you say if Genova and her pups have been found and are they all okay?

Hi,

I'm new to this site nad have just read through this whole thread. I'm pleased I did but I'm disappointed to be honest that some individuals see fit to "have a go" at others. We are all different, have different standards, differing opinions and do things differently with our dogs depending on what breeds we own or have dexperience of.

I for one, am opposed to shooting a dog, but that's because I've been brought up with the idea that euthanasia by injection is the most humane way of destroying a dog and should only be done if the dog is in pain, too aggressive etc.

However, as I wasn't there then I certainly wouldn't assume that someone did something wrongly just because I don't agree with it. In this case, it may have been the best outcome, most importantly for the dog.

I would love a pack of wolf dogs but I have no experience of them. SO many people think they can get a large, powerful breed just because it ooks good, don't bother working the dog or training it, and expecting the dog to have respect for them and that's when things go pear shaped.

I have had GSDs and Akitas my whole life and although I have no paper qualifications to prove I know about these breeds, I can certainly advise people who have never owned one how to treat them, train them ,look after them etc.

I have one question (not really related though).........

I know of someone who owns a Saarloos with what looks like very pale GSD markings. I've seen pictureds of a NI looking very similar. Are there any obvious differences between the 2 breeds physically? There are days when unless I see a picture of each breed next to each other, I wouldn't be able to distinguish one form the other.

Laura xx