Off topic Border Terrier posts split from NI thread Discussions

Will you keep a pup?

Will you health test/hip score (whatever Borders need)?

Will you take back pups if need be?

Will you keep ALL your older dogs even if they can't be bred from?

(I know all the answers but just asking them out loud )

Absolutely that would be the idea, the breeder of the bitch will also want one and Im fairly sure at least one member of my family will be given one too.

Borders dont require any at present, but I will still have the hips scored as a precaution and also the patellas checked.

Definitely!!

I already do and wouldnt have it any other way. Breeze had a pyo at under 2yrs, wouldnt part with her for the world!

Hi Dawn,

So am I correct in understanding you will health test for HD and you will check for Luxating Patellas?

Yes Nes I will. In the US some breeders already do although there is no real reason as the breed does not "suffer" from HD, there have been a couple cases of higher than you would expect scores, (16 being the highest I think) If we are to breed better dogs in future, I can see it as a way to ensure I have done everything possible to ensure I breed a healthy litter. there are a couple breeders here already doing this. Likewise patellas, no real problem, but terriers, esp JRT's are said to "hop" Ive not sen a Border do it, but Im prepared to have my Dogs examined just to be sure.

Kcjack, Dawn welcomed questions so I find your usual rudeness as usual completely unnnesasary. Manners cost nothing.

Hi Dawn,

Yeah I thought that ref the HD also (you know how I feel about anasthetic) however, as you know I do like to educate myself in such matters and did a quick google search and HD is something something that breeders do seem to be testing for. Do you think they do more tests in the USA?
I have seen various sites and they seem to recommend other tests also.

Yes Nes I do think they do more tests on every breed in the States, but they still get the puppy farmers and those that dont care, just like we do!!

I think you can get cases of HD in every breed and crossbreed, likewise many many other diseases, but I also feel its important if you can do a bit to ensure the health of the animals you breed, then its a good thing.

Indeed and I get the impression that it is a test that is increasing in the UK for the BT.

I am not suggesting that the US breeders are better, though I have seen them recommending eye tests as well.

Ref the disorder 'Spike' I am guessing that there is no genetic test to identify the disorder?

Sorry "Canine Epileptoid Cramping Syndrome" aka (CECS) "Spike's Disease".

This is turning into a Border thread!! Excellent!

CECS is a recently discovered or named disease, "Spike" was Border that is affected (still alive and very well with hardly any attacks now, I think he is 12) It is a canine disease, not breed specific, indeed Labs are affected as much as Borders in many peoples eyes. I have also seen an English Pointer cramp and a crossbreed.

When this problem came to light, Border breeders and owners realised that something should be done, they have funded much research and given DNA, blood etc... to the relevant testing universities in the hope this problem can be cured or at least tested for in ALL dogs. Im proud to be a Border owner whos's breeders are willing to help with this and provide specimens of blood etc.. of healthy and affecte animals for testing so a goal can hopefully be achieved.

Labradors get this and its often (as always) has been confused with Epilepsy, but its nowhere near the same and nowhere near as severe in most cases. Dogs lead normal lives, long, and I dont know of a dog dying as a result. Diet seems to play a part too, suggesting some proteins trigger these cramping attacks.

There is no way of know its inherited status, whether it is or is itsnt, how its contracted etc.. but Border breeders at least are doing as much as possible to help towards that aim.

Yeah, I thought that when posting, maybe we should've started a new thread. I have only met a couple of BTs and I can't see myself ever owning one, though my friend has one who is charming (and it is nice having a dog that can sit in your lap like a cat and cuddle in).

(Ref 'CECS' I read it came to light in 1997 (in the BT) and was traced back to 1974 ).

Well they say traced, but in fact we are only going on what owners remember of their dogs symptoms and most of them were diagnosed as having epilepsy, which we know 100% now it wasnt. So really you cant read much into that. My good friend is the co-ordinator for CECS in this country, she's a minefield on the subject, I, try to help where I can, I have a page on my website about it and a page with the recent research and findings.

Thanks Dawn, unlike some, I like to stay educated in various breeds xxxx

Friends BT:

Cutie, looks like trouble though!!

I think all Borders look like trouble

I have always had a soft spot for BTs and a few of Elkie people have both breeds.

Back to health, I think testing is important but cannot take the place of experience, a good breeder is one who has taken the time an effort to research the lines of their breeding stock as far back as is possible.

Nothing can substitute for knowing without thought that some lines are carriers of something you wish to avoid.

I am in no doubt that you are a breeder who knows your stock inside out but there are those, at least it seems so by what they say, that think hip scoring and eye testing is all that is required and off you go breeding. No real knowledge of what the background of the breeding is and not, if it comes to it, what they are aiming at.

Have I missed something...Dawn are you having puppies???????
I like BTs a lot, they are a breed that seems to be becoming more popular though and so I would have thought it is vital to do as many tests as possible and to be as responsible as possible.
Can't wait for puppy pics.....

I also think breeders should have taken the time to live with the dogs they intend on breeding into adulthood..BEFORE they breed the breed...

For instance..people who breed the first and only dog they have ever had as soon as it gets to breeding age..that annoys me..because how can they have experience in that breed to pass onto puppy people??

Yeah, bet they are tiny as pups and real cute looking xxx

Dawn, no pics though of when they are first born and yucky, they must be clean first! Just kidding, I know it must be intense when bitches are giving birth, and I am sure you wont be photographing at such a time.