Question about the Northen Inuit type dog General Chat

Yes from a Mal perspective.. I beleive that no good breeder would ever willingly give any of their breeding to be used in this manner..

But then we all know that everyone has a different idea of what is a good breeder...

That was proven a few wks back when someone posted a supposedly good breeder because their website made out they were good..when in reality..no sensible possible malamute owner who had done their research would touch said breeder with a 90 barge pole..

So.. it all depends on your definition of good breeder..going by my definition there are very few good breeders..but NONE of them would allow this to happen to their dogs or their breed

Thanks Louise just wanted to establish that it is JUST Mals your opinion is based on...

Yes as its Mals I have and Mals I have researched..however I am sure Mick will say the same about sibes and GSD people would say the same about GSD....

How do you feel about the CZech and SWD being crossed with NI??

Its much the same as asking you if you think Bullies should be crossed with Poodles do you think your bullies breeder would allow any of their pups to be crossbred??

Edited to say.. I thought your JUST Mals was quite funny.. thats the name of my forum LOL..

I am at a loss to understand why it is deemed necessary to start off on another tack breeding yet another wolf type cross breed.

Why? Is it just for the looks, an unsupportable reason IMO unfair on the dogs and not an acceptable reason to take the risk in continuing to breed from animals that are known to carry health problem, even if only 1% of pups born goes on the be sick or maimed that is one too many and not worth taking the deliberate risk or is it just to make money? If so that is down right unethical.

I agree Jackie....

If you look back the poll thing that was done...I put forward that all breeding be stopped until a proper way forward was set out

Have to say Louise you may well be right, in fact, you are. It will not happen though because if the responsible people stop breeding, which I am sure they will then those you are only interested in making money will continue, until the cross has such a bad reputation that the BYB and Puppy farmers find that to breed them is uneconomical and they will start on the next poor breeds to be corrupted into unhealthy specimens.

Thing is your right if not NIs then people like JK will chose another breed as I think before NIs JK bred shar peis.

Unless the "registered animals which will be used" are obtained by subterfuge and bred against the conditions of the breeders' contracts, then yes, I definitely believe that they will be from bad breeding. No reputable, responsible good breeder of any breed that I know of would consider for one moment allowing dogs of their breeding to be used in such a project.

Mick

Maybe if you see it as a bad thing, maybe none of u have experienced a wolf first hand or understand a wolf at all...... To breed to the wolf dogs does not mean u have a dangerous animal, or even a hard to control animal. it is the same with every breed u have to find the right owners who understand the dogs. Just becuase a dog has wolf in its name just not mean it is a wolf, and that is what terrifys most normal people, until they have met some....

The Ni that have been removed from the NI groups, have all been outcrossed with very successfull results, and also very loving dogs. If i look at all 5 of mine they all have different characters, and some are very soft indeed, I have one dog that in the morning when she first goes out, she has to find flowers to sniff, on the other hand a I a alpha who is compleltely different.

To outcross to these breeds is to improve on something that is flawed. and yes it will take years before anything of the results will really become good and show its self, however if dog breeds continue on the route they are going and just keep breeding brother to sister or mother to son etc, it is only going to get worse. Breeders of any breed theses days are having to thing about what they are doing and how they can correct the inbreeding that is going on before we lose all the breeds. Mother nature does not stop the dogs from mixing it is us who stops them, thats why we have mongrels in our society and they very often are the healthier dog who have nothing wrong with them.

Just because these breeders are trying to keep the look of the wolf, does not mean they are creating something dangerous, or ill health. They are trying to help a breed that is suffering and until people see the good results that hopfully will come from it, this subject will keep coming up time and time again.

And its not just our breed its the fast majority of breeds that have issues these days. Its also no just this breed that have wolf in them they all do.....every single one of them stems back to just 5 wolves in the wild. There is a paper on gentics of dogs and how they were created. So every dog sitting at home is the same only its been breed out over 100s of years, people have been fiddling trying to creat the right dog for the right job.

If these dogs were so hard to manage why does my 8 year old walk them by herself, my dogs are not train to heel, stay or anything else or even sit, but my 7 year old and 8 year old both walk them on leads for me if i have no time to spare. and yet they cant walk my 12 year old lab or my 11 year old one, who have been trained to heel????


I think people need to get to know these dogs and these breeds before they start commenting on them.....you have to remember the husky is not for everyone and nor is the Mal... but people with lives full of out door life buy them and love having them around....

Dont judge these guys until u have met some.....

Q. - and what happens in the meantime to the hundreds (if not thousands) of "flawed" puppies produced during these years while people try to help the breed "become good?"

A. - they are sold to the unsuspecting public and increasing numbers will end up in rescue.

Which is why all breeding of this/these "flawed breed(s) should be stopped immediately.

The hybrid vigour argument only works for those animals who mate randomly - and even then the argument is flawed as we only see the successful results. Those that don't survive, don't get seen. The results from animals that are mated deliberately are only as good as the research and health testing that went into them - same as breeding within a breed.

Sometimes the best way of helping something which is "suffering" and is irrevocably compromised, is simply to put it out of its misery. This is what I personally believe should happens with the NI/Ute/BI etc etc - stop breeding and let the breed die out naturally.

I've met quite a lot and my reaction is still the same - what's the point?

I know that there is a major split within the "wolfdog" community and that people tend to be regarding one faction as "better" than the other (which isn't difficult as the JK camp is totally beyond the pale). My own view, as I have said on many occasions, is that continuing to breed these dogs is irresponsible full stop and should end immediately.

As far as the wolf thing goes, I think that you will find that lots of people with northern breeds and, indeed, dogs in general, have a deep love, knowledge and understanding of wolves. That doesn't mean they need to have a wolf lookalike in their living room.

Mick

Taloowa, to announce to those of us who are worried about this cross breeding are not able to do so because we have no knowledge of the wolf is total nonsense, how do you know we have not, I for one have a full knowledge and have handled them, they are shy creatures and would be very uncomfortable in the domestic situation.

Also not sure what a wolf has to do with a GSD cross, as far as I can see absolutely nothing.

Most of the NI owners on here say they aren't brave enough to own a Malamute.. so would this mean that NI people who own them now wouldn't consider having an NI crossed with CWD or Sarloos (as according to BS they would be harder than a mal to live with?)

Is your main reason for stopping all breeding of this type of wolfy dog because of the health of the breed(s). Or is it because you think that the breed(s) shouldn't have been started the in the first place.

Also do you think that breeds of KC reg dogs with health problems should also die out? I think that the KC is doing the right thing in encouraging breeders sort out the breeds. Just as I think that there are responsible breeders trying to sort out the NI.

.

I'm brave! LOL I just think mal's are a bit to chunky for my taste. I like the slimer husky. No offence to mals it just the same as likeing the TB type to the cob in horses . . .

i adore the look of both northern breeds mentioned... just the off lead problem prevented me from taking any further steps in that direction.

I love husky's but the off lead thing put me off getting another. Kiska is a very mellow husky and getting on in years so she is great off lead. But i'm not sure we would ever find another one quite like her . . . NI's solved that problem for me

Oh thats right Mals are fat husky's

Thank you artic wolf for asking the same question I was going to, on the breeding of KC register dogs and having the same issues, Do you want them to die out too?

Breeders in this day and age and this problematic point have to look at doing something new. And it will cause splits, and divdes between people, and this is what is happening here.

Just because you dont know the out come of outcrossing does not mean to say there are going to be major problems, if you carry on the way we are going, we will all have dead dogs.... someone has to try something new, and that is what is happening in every breed now. Not just the wolfy looking dogs.....

So there maybe upset and there maybe happy times and anyone that is wanting to give it ago to better what is going on out there good luck to them.

Mother nature did not intend animals to stay the same she allows them to change and mutate, it is us that does not allow this. we are the ones that stop it cos we want dogs to look a particualr way. Personally I would prefer a cross or a mongrel and a non recognised spices to the KC breed animals these days, you have more of a chance of something being healthy then u do in a pure breed.

Anyway if u dont like crossing the NI with anything, how was the NI created? by crossing lots of different dogs.... so y get up tight about something that is only evolving in to the next stage? just because these dogs gained some wolf in them in the 50's and 60's does not mean they are uncontrolable, you could say the same about the husky, how they are hard to train and cant do recall.

But no one bitches and moans about that issue... no one bitches and moans about the problems the king charles spanial or the boxer have, or what they have done to the labrador and the poodle. At least people are trying to keep the looks the same, and even better the temprament in my eyes.

I dont get Y people, on this forum keep moaning about something that they cant stop, or dont like, y dont they just leave it alone, and if they dont like it they dont have to buy one.....they can go and buy there KC registered dog and be happy with it...... but just remember KC registered does not make it a happy healthy dog.....

Get over yourselves and grow up a little......how do u think new sheep are created and cows are kept going..... funny enough they outcross them, and the same with race horses, and u know what the only people who seem to have a issue with outcrossing to better soemthing is the poeple who seem to have a issue with outcrossing the NI....

It is being done very succesfull, and a 200 plus dogs are like it i think u will find..... and it will be contiuning with charlie richardson, andre tanner, sanerella, and myself.... and i would guess, very soon, JK

Not struggling through your whole post but established breeds do have health problems but they also have 'clear' dogs to breed from. So when it become obvious that a particular problem is in a breed everything is done to see that those animals who are effected or may be carriers and removed from the breeding stock.

That is not possible with the NI and the like because the back ground is not known for long enough back to sort this out and know you are only breeding from 'clear' stock.

It is true that both with established breeds and new breeds it is impossible to control the BYB and the PF breeder but you can advise people to buy from a reliable source who only use animals known to be clear of a particular problem, this is not possible with the NI as it is likely that all the animal around at the moment are either sick, carriers or will become sick and there is no way to separate the sick from the healthy.

If I am wrong I would be delighted to hear about it.