Question about the Northen Inuit type dog General Chat

Jesus!

I am as confused now as I was to start with!

I had someone I walk with now and again ask me about NIs, I didn't know anything about them and told him I'd ask folk who knew! Beginning to wish I hadn't bothered now as I'm no better off!

lol know how u feel its a long running saga, were the NI's have been so inbred for so long brother to sister and stuff that they are all falling ill rather badly, and some of the breeders have realised the monoploy JK has on it and what she has done and they are now starting to break away and introduce a new breed to outcross the problems that exsits . Like the epliepsy and the HD etc.

Nashoba Kennels and Sanserrella and cry-wolf and also the Utanagons, are either crossing already with other breeds or are going to be in the very near furture
bye
averil

Hmmm. That's just about what I had figured out. Thanks for the information and links, but at this moment in time it does not seem like breeding more NIs is the right things to do or, in fact, buying an NI puppy. I think I'll tell him to steer clear for now and get a rescue dog! (Already said to him to get a rescue and he's taking the idea very seriously now! ;-) )

It is all very well crossing a NI with another breed of dog but unless you know the history of both dogs back for at least 10 generations you will still be in danger of producing pups that are carrying health and construction problems.

They are using Saarloos Wolf Dogs and Czech WolfDogs. All registered pedigree animals that are and have been health tested for generations. They have come from reputable kennels who know what they are being used for and can see the benefit to the NI who is in such a mess.

I understand that but what about the NI what is known about that, nothing would be my quess.

Hi there

To save the NI you need to outcross it to another breed that is healthy, up until june this year your could not buy a pure saarloos in the UK, and the same with czech wolf, these are the closes breeds that you could breed a NI to to create the same look.

Some people will choose to buy pure czech or saarloos, how ever some will still choose the NI, which is very understandable as the two breeds mentioned are very hard for your average dog owner to care for, were the NI is not so diffcult. It still requires more looking after then your average Lab, but not as much as the saarloos or the czech wolf. so hopfully outcross the ni will improve there health but also my have helpd the czech and saaloos to be a easier breed to care for.

Bye
Averil

hi there

you are correct that there is very little know about the NI, however with all the inbreeding in the animal, it needs new bloodlines, with all the illness in it, they are just breeding back in to it everytime so they need to outcross to a new breed, and some people are chosing the saarloos and czech as a route not to dis similar to the NI in looks, and they hope by doing this that the gentics of the animal will improve with time and the breed will be come health again.

bye
averil

Have to say I agree with you, why risk yet another disaster. I have a horrid feeling that breeding Saarloo or CWD could prove less profitable and more restrictive.

I wish you were right but some problems with both health and construction do not work that way it does not dilute, if it returns, and it surely will, it will be the same full blown problem.

It has been proved in many breeds the only way to remove a problem from the breed is to stop breeding from stock that have it in their lines.

As it is no one knows what the breed lines of a given NI are, it follows that they should not be used for breeding what ever the breeder is aiming to do.

I suppose I can see the health POV..

BUT
Breeding these dogs into the NI will just make its prey drive stronger etc etc..and they will be harder to live with than they already are..

Hi there

Well I can safley say i have 5 of these dogs, that are crossed with NI, currently, and none of them have issues at all, and i know almost 100 more on the cry wolf forum, none of which have any of these issues, I also know the bloodlines for the fast majority of the NI that have been used, and can safley say that none of the dogs, pups have any issues at all, they are all healthy, and as for prey drive, yes they hunt, but so do gsd, and inuits, and it is no different, my guys live with my three kids aged 4, 7, 8, and the kids push them around more then the dogs do them.

I cant see a problem with theses dogs at all, i think it is a good idea to outcross them.

The only issue with any of these dogs wether it be Ni, saarloos or czech is you have to have a completley different lifestyle to any other dog owner, and u have to understand the wolfiness, if that makes sense as it does not fit in to everyones taste.... if any of u want to meet some i am more then happy for people to see my dogs, they play with other dogs, all the time, well before we moved lol....and they are big softies, that love there pack.

I expect its because there are so few here Mini. obviously the cost of purchase, then importing it isnt the thing people want to do.

If you ask me, id buy one, Im not struck on these crossbreeds, i DO like the SWD though, but I suppose I can see the benefit of using such dogs if its to improve what people have done to the NI.

I wonder whether Mick and Louise think that the registered animals which will be used are from bad breeding then, since they don't seem to be able to believe any one breeding any of the dogs used to create the N.I came from good breeding stock, ie kc reg stock and breeding ?...just a question x

Personally I see the people who are breaking away and " inventing another wolfy type " are just jumping on another band wagon, MPO

From DEFRA - thought it may be relevant to the discussion

13.3 Newark and Sherwood Council –v- Julie Kelham 20/05/98
In July 1997 an attempt was made by Newark and Sherwood District Council to seize
suspected animals from the defendant in Newark, Nottingham. This was unsuccessful due to
the inadequate powers of entry provided by the Act, as perceived by the council (see later).
The only remaining course of action open to Newark and Sherwood District Council was to
prosecute for an offence under Section 1 of the Dangerous Wild Animals Act 1976 (The
keeping of unlicensed animals). This was the first prosecution in British law involving an
alleged wolfdog in contravention of the Dangerous Wild Animals Act.
34
The case was based on the following evidence:
· Verbal admission by the owner that the animals contained a low percentage of wolf
· An advertisement in the local newspaper offering “wolf hybrid puppies” for sale
· The owners appearance on television and in the press on wolf hybrid issues
The case was heard at Newark Magistrates Court on 20 May 1998.
Three council officers gave evidence for the prosecution. The prosecution expert witness was
Dr. Michael Bruford, an expert geneticist, who argued (as at Rotherham) that any dog with
even 1% wolf genes could not be classified as Canis familiaris and would therefore fall
within the scope of the Act.
The council were unable to have experts examine the animals as it was their understanding
that the Act did not make provision for custody, since no application had ever been made for a
licence.
The defence called two experts, Dr. Roger Mugford, a “leading animal psychologist”, and
Trevor Turner MRCVS, an “eminent veterinary surgeon”. Both had examined the animals
and had found no trace of wolf-like behaviour. The defendant claimed in court that none of
her dogs contained recent wolf genes, but that they had been bred from “Nordic breeds”
supposedly closer to wolves genetically than most dogs. She also denied that the dogs
advertised were hers, saying that they belonged to a friend who was using her telephone
number.
As this was a criminal case, the prosecution had to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the
animals were wolf hybrids within the meaning of the Act. Since the local authority had no
opportunity to inspect the animals concerned, they were unable to present any evidence of the
animals alleged wolf content to the court. Consequently the court found the defendant not
guilty (Kerr, D. 1998.).

and more

We are aware of two prominent breeders who have, in the past, extolled the benefits of
wolfdogs and have openly appeared on television and in the press declaring their interest in
wolfdogs. These breeders, living in the north of England, have been well-known since the
early 1990s. We believe that a large proportion of animals represented as wolfdogs originate
from these breeders.
One of these breeders, although maintaining that she has now retired from wolfdog breeding,
is known to have sold a large number of animals represented as wolfdogs over the past few
years, and is still freely advertising "wolf-hybrids for sale". She has declined to co-operate
with this project. She does not hold a licence for Dangerous Wild Animals. She has been
banned for life from owning animals following prosecution by the RSPCA, however she is
known to continue to keep animals on her premises.
The other breeder has also sold animals represented as wolfdogs. At the time of our visit she
owned five dogs, and had a litter of puppies. She was prosecuted by the Local Authority
under the Dangerous Wild Animals Act in 1997, however she successfully claimed in court
that her animals did not contain recent wolf ancestry. She is now establishing a new breed of
domestic dog, named “Northern Inuit” which she is currently trying to have recognised by the
Kennel Club. The result of this is that the animals that she was previously selling as wolfdogs
are now being sold as “wolf look-alikes - Northern Inuits”. This breeder agreed to speak to us
about her Inuit dogs, but refused to give us information on the wolfdogs she sold before the
court proceedings were taken against her.
We have been informed that the “Northern Inuit” dog has been developed from a mixture of
Alaskan Malamute, German Shepherd, Siberian Husky and Inuit dog breeds. No mention is
made of any wolf content in the breed. She informed us that the Kennel Club have agreed to
accept an application from “The Northern Inuit Society”, however we have spoken to the
Kennel Club directly and they informed us that it is extremely unlikely that these animals will
be recognised as a new breed in the foreseeable future.
Although we have been told that there is no connection between the Northern Inuit and
wolfdogs, advertisements in Cage and Aviary Birds magazine describe animals for sale as
being “Northern Inuit puppies – Wolf X” (Cage and Aviary Birds, 24/10/98 & 31/10/9.
42
Having met one of these breeders, and having seen pictures of a number of the other breeder’s
animals, it is our opinion that it is highly unlikely that either person has ever bred genuine
wolfdogs. We understand that the original animals from which breeders began breeding were
imported in around 1987 from San Francisco (see photographs 5-. Although imported as
25% wolfdogs, we have been informed that these animals were, in fact, rescued animals of
unknown ancestry, and therefore their wolf content could never be stated with accuracy. In
addition, one reportedly “low content hybrid” female was imported from Alaska (Photograph
9). Even if these animals were accurately described, the offspring of the breeder’s animals
today do not show any sign of recent wolf ancestry. To the best of our knowledge, neither
breeder has ever had access to any animal with a significant wolf content.

all smacks of profiteering from the unsuspecting public to me at the start.

Hope the people wha are striving to improve the breed succeed for the dogs sake, but trying to set type in such a short space of time without introducing major health risks is nigh on impossible, most breeds had hundreds of years if not 1000's for general type to set as it was done for purpose not looks originally.

I always look for outcrosses, health tested adults and 5 gen pedigree in a dog or if looking for a hybrid 1st gen cross.

This is one NIS view that I just don't get

Yes there have been many people split away from the NIS and they have taken their dogs out of the NIS gene pool. So the NIS gene pool is smaller, has less genetic diversity and more inbreeding than it did in 1998 or whenever the NIS was formed. (Unless there has been outcrossing within the NIS)

.