NIS and prong collars General Chat

With all due respect any breed of dog can be trained with time,without having to resort to this type of collar.
For me prong collars are the same as e collars, it wouldn't matter what dog i had or the training issues i faced, i would never resort to such methods.
Training is time ,reward and repeating the command until the dog understands what is required.
Size or breed doesn't really come into it, it is purely a case of how much time and work the owner is prepared to put into it.

where did you find the link... explaining the photo.. can someone post the link...

either way.. prong collars are really not needed.. I have taken on some really hard dogs in my time.. and never once had to use them..

How would you train a dog that chases sheep and is in danger of being shot by the farmer?

Keep it on a lead........ta da

Avoid sheep

and
find a farmer thats happy for you to do loads of socialisation with your on lead dog round sheep.... best started young.. but its never to late to work on any problem with any dog

take your dog near to sheep... do other training.. dont just focus on the sheep... if you show your dog.. then do some ring craft.. or whatever the more your dog is round sheep the less of an issue it will be...

if done properly you should be able to walk past them in the end without the dog even taking a second glance

Yes obviously..... I mean if you lived somewhere like Wales and was surrounded by sheep, and wanted to walk your dog off lead, I am just interested to know how trainers would tackle this?

I didnt mean obviously to your advice Shona- to the on lead and avoid sheep

If you haven't got the control you need no dog should be off lead, esp near live stock.
I would think the 1st thing is to give the dog the time it needs to be confortable around live stock on lead before any progression can be made.
Controlled training in the enviroment, so the dog learns to ignore and follow commands.

How about if you were correcting behaviour in an older dog?

There are some that use electric shock collars, oh yeah, NI owners!!

what around sheep?
the same, although if the dog has got the habit to chase, it would take longer to correct.
which is where the time and patience comes in to it by the handler.

Yeah!!! and they even supply them!!!

Well having Malamutes..the ones that most NI owners seem to think are WORSE than NI.. I have never heard of any Mal owners using them..

Keep it on a lead.. and away from sheep.. whether you live in Wales or the back of beyond doesn't matter..If you want it off lead find a safe enclosed space

Hi Shona, I found the original provenance of the photo and Tarheel is quite right, there is no proof on the site that it was caused by a prong collar. I have removed that photo as it would cause more confusion to the issue, I apologise for the confusion my over swift post may have caused, I can PM you the link to the site it came from though if you like (I think it has a forum so I'll not post it here).

The second picture I posted is definitely from a prong collar though. You can check the link on that one by opening the picture in another window, then remove the end of the address. This will link you back to the site it came from.

Surely a prong collar isn't going to help a dog around sheep anyway as it only works when the dog is on lead anyway and shouldn't be left on when the dog is off lead?

its something you would need to work towards... it could take time.. but after some time of your dog being fine round sheep when walking and training. you would need to have the dog quite close to sheep next.. hence its good to have a friendly farmer that trusts your ability and judgement.. after a while at this you would start to give your dog a longer line... see how it copes..

all of my dogs can happily walk through sheep.. cattle and horses.. but Im lucky.. my friends are farmers.. and I have had horses all my life.. so its second nature for them..

If your dog has already chased sheep it can take a long time to turn the problem round.. but its do-able..

Thanks shona, no mine never see sheep we live in London so not many sheep, just curious

I have never heard of or seen prong collars until this thread and have to say I am shocked they are even allowed.
They look like some sort of torture implement (well they are I guess).

Barbaric, esp on NI's who are so easy to please. Yes they can pull but there are other ways to sort that out..... unless perhaps you have too many dogs to control properly at once... in which case perhaps this collar would be an easy option for the owner.

if you right-click with your mouse on a photo you get a menu, choose Properties, and that usually gives you the originating website.

The first pic was from a site called Unchain Your Dog. The pictures are truly dreadful but IMO show abuse beyond comprehension due to neglect and permanent chaining of dogs, and not specifically prong collar related damage.

The second picture does look like puncture wounds, and I would be interested to know whether this case has gone to court and been proved to have come from a prong collar.

If an individual or organisation knows definitely that the injury came from a prong collar, (and to know that they would need to see the collar in use and therefore know the owner), there should be dozens of successful prosecutions to quote whenever this topic arises.

I don't really trust images on the net I'm afraid. They are too easy to photoshop. A successful prosecution for cruelty would be more convincing than a photo of an injury or photos of collars that admittedly do look medieval.

Suzanne Clothier has written an article which is interesting considering her positive credentials. http://www.flyingdogpress.com/prong.html

Does anyone have a link to the Hallgren study?

Where is Wysiwyg when you need her?

i agree

Ok I don't post too often but hope no one minds my contribution.

I have never personally used or even seen one of these but tend to think they are probably not as bad as some would make out (hype n all that).

Any training tool can be barbaric when in the wrong hands.

I don't agree that it is nessiserily an easy option for lazy owners (I don't deny it may be in SOME cases) but I'm sure for the most part they are responsible owners that have not found other methods to be successful. Some indiviual dogs can be particualy stubborn.

I am afraid I have to totally disagree with with the above statement. A prong coller from what I can gather is for nothing more than to stop a dog from pulling. Just because a dog pulls on the lead when out doesn't mean that the dog isn't controlable and certantly doesn't make them unsuitable as a family pet, that is down to temprement. My dogs can pull like steam trains but they are generally well behaved, loving, affectionate and are fantasic with my son, that in my eyes is what makes a wonderfull family pet not whether or not they pull on a lead.