NIS and prong collars General Chat

I have just seen the president of the NIS recomending where to buy prong collars cheap on the NIS. I have managed to train my NI and he is fantastic without the use of these they just seem wrong and inhumane to me.

Personally I feel they are for lazy owners

I think they are barbaric too. Unfortunately many people just want an easy 'quick fix' solution, including the Chairperson of TIDA who uses electric shock collars on his dogs all the time as it suits. Its a great shame that TIDA hasn't stuck to the original aims of promoting responsible ownership and kind methods of training. There was a time when they wouldn't even allow anyone to use a choke chain at their events, and now their Chairperson is demonstrating electric shock collars at their events!

During a phone call with JK she even tried to promote these horrid prong collars to me, no way was I even going to consider useing such horrid thing on my beloved dogs, I love them TOO much to do that to them.

ANYONE that thinks these collars are ok, I want nothing to do with, full stop!!!!

Horrid Prong Collars?
Do you even understand how these collars work? Have you ever been trained on how to use and work with one of these prong collars? Before you cast judgement on users of these collars maybe you should educate yourself on what you are talking about. If you are knowledgable about the Horrid Prong Collars, Please share with everyone documented case study on how terrible of a training device these are.

i just heard that some wives and husbands of NI breeders were recommending anger management courses for their spouses.
i was shocked and appalled that they should resort to such extreme measures.
everyone knows that NI breeders react much better to quiet logical persuasion ;-)

Sadly yes - I do understand how these collars work - I had one demonstrated on myself. Not an expeience I would care to repeat! (I have also had e-collars used on me!)

There is NO way I would accept the use of any device such as this in my classes.

I truely feel sorry for people who have to resort to these kinds of training methods in this day and age.

Yes they work by aversion, not rocket science now maybe you should educate yourself on positive training measures

Yes, I had seen this and mentioned it on another thread. I found it very strange that the person who developed the breed should recommend them, JK just keeps going up in my estimations

Personally looking at that pics is enough to persuade me NOT to use one, though my trainer tried to get me to use one on Jamie Anyone who wants to use one of those should first use it on themself:twisted:

if people wont spend time an the effort to train there dogs they shouldnt have one or get a dog they can handle

No way would I put that on my dog. If I'm not willing to try it on my own neck, I wouldn't put it on my dogs.

I agree these things are pure laziness. Loki is a powerful boy and I managed to train him to walk to heel. So much so that I can't get him to pull for Cani Cross

I walk a Springer who broke his owners ankle by pulling her over. I had him walking to heel in five minutes without the need for one of these awful things . People shouldn't get dogs they can't control.

My Kato is a very large Inuit and is extremely powerful and yes pulled excessively which was one of his issues when he came, but its involves effort on our part as owners to correct these issues with time and patience. And being honest sorted him very quickly with a simple halti and few other methods.

Your a disgrace JK recommending this on the NIS to people who own NIs its cruelty!!

JUst found this article on a web site (I'll not mention it) UNBELIEVABLE!!



"My husband and and I recently aquired a beautiful
Shepherd. She is 12 weeks old today and quite a handful. Sometimes she can be so sweet, but other times she is actually quite vicious.

Well, I don't know if vicious is the right word, but when I tell her "No!" she just gets more agitated and lunges at me with her teeth bared.

I got a small pinch collar since she's a puppy but I have a question as to how it should fit. When I take 2 prongs out it is snug against her neck and I worry about it being too tight. When I only take 1 prong out, it sort of slides down her neck a little bit and she constantly scratches at it and it circles around her neck and doesn't stay put. Which is the right fit?

She is really a handful and I think the pinch collar is a great tool, but I want to make sure it fits right so as not to cause her any discomfort.

You say in the book that you should be able to slide half a finger in there, but I guess I am just confused as to how you should judge the fit.

Please help! I'm afraid my time is running out to get her to start obeying me. She doesn't see me as the Alpha dog quite yet and it is very frustrating to be with her for long periods of time. When I say "Duchess, come" she only comes when she feels like it. With the pinch collar, what is the best way to make sure she comes each time I call her? I don't want to go around yanking on her neck, but at the same time she needs to respect me. Any tips you can give me on making sure she sees me as the boss would be very helpful!

Thanks,


Dear deleted

When I refer to "half a finger space" in regard to the proper fitting of the pinch collar, what I mean is:

- If the average person's finger is ½ inch wide, then there should be aproximately ¼ inch of space between the end of the prong and the skin of the dog's neck.

So, why don't I just say, "1/4 inch of space"? Because it's easier to judge by sticking your finger beneath the prong than it is to break out your old high school ruler.

Many of you (newsletter subscribers) are no doubt wondering why I would recommend a pinch collar for a puppy. And my answer is: I'm not. At least not for most puppies.

But there are some puppies who will not respond to a simple diversion or verbal, "No." They will bite and cause puncture wounds on your legs and arms if they are not corrected for this behavior. So, if you've tried the other methods for dealing with "puppy nipping" that I've outlined in the book, then you'll need to progress to a small pinch collar. (Also described in the book.)

"But aren't they too young for a pinch collar?" you're probably thinking.

The answer is: No.

They ARE too young for formal obedience training. (I.E., Sit, Down, Come, Heel, Stay). [This should start when you see the adult teeth come in... at aproximately 4 to 5 months of age.]

But a puppy SHOULD be corrected for biting... if you've found that diverting his attention to a chew toy or another activity is not working.

Why? Because the mother dog would not allow the puppy to bite her. If the pup bites her too hard, she will turn and bite the puppies neck.

From the puppies perspective, THIS HURTS.

But it does not cause damage.

And that's why the puppy chooses not to bite the mama dog any more. Because it doesn't feel good.

This is the same reason that it's okay to correct a puppy for excessively hard biting with the pinch collar. The pinch collar replicates the mama dog.

Trust me on this: I've seen 11 week-old Rottweiler puppies and 10 week-old Jack Russell Terrier puppies who had bitten through (literally) their owners fingers with their needle-like teeth. The owners are almost in tears with the idea that they may have to put their puppy to sleep. They've tried all the nonsense garbage your read in the dog magazines.

Stuff like shrieking in a high-pitched voice. Or putting the puppy in the crate. Or turning your back on the dog. But none of it works on a puppy who is intent on biting down as hard as he can on your soft, human flesh.

Getting back on course... When you correct the puppy, just use common sense. Simply because your car can accelerate up to 140mph does not mean that you should or need to drive that fast. The same goes for the pinch collar. If you're an adult and you can employ reason and common sense, then you should be able to tailor the intensity of your correction to appropriately match your dog's temperament.

How do you do this? You test.

If you correct the puppy for biting, then next you should immediately offer him your hand again. If he immediately bites you again... then you now know that your correction wasn't meaningful.

That's all for now, folks!

:twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

speechless

You are correct, They do work by aversion. It flat out works to correct a problem dog. FYI, I am educated. I have researched the pro and cons and the prong collars. The prong collar is recommended by thousands of trainers and organizations throughout the world over any other training collar. By no means is a prong collar for everyone or every dog. They are proven safe and effective over most other corrective collars. For those of you not intelligent enough to undrstand a dogs neck stucture is much stonger than a human neck and a dogs skin is very elastic compared to our skin. Please do not put a prong collar on yourselves and have someone give it a good pull. They are designed for use on dogs and not humans. Positve reenforcement is best in training and I am a firm believer in that. Not one training method works 100 percent all of the time. You must be able to be open to other training methods and use a varity of training styles to get the desired result. If the prong collar is not for you then don't use one. Don't critisize others for their training methods until you know and understand the facts and have done your own research. The Prong Collar does look like a horrid devise but it actualy is very safe when properly fitted and used correctly on the problem dog.

Tarheel they are for people who want a quick fix and cant be bothered to train properly if this is what you do go get yourself a dog you can handle without these measures as obviously your Tamaskan is to much for you.

my question is... IF they are so great... why are they not sold in any of the main pet shops... I have never seen one in my life sold anywhere...

they are a quick fix for trainers with no tallent

What i dont get then, is that the NI is promoted as a good family dog, wgich to me means easy to control & trainable. If owners are having to resort to prongs or electric collars to control them.....then imo thats NOT a family dog?????

DITO...well said

Totally agree

KCJack,
Your post is border line offensive. I do not attack your training methods nor do I attack your breed of dog. Sadly I am not allowed to speak of my breed on this forum otherwise I would educate you on how well tempered my breed of dog is and the ease in their trainabilty. NOt to mention their high inteligence. Please refrain from attacking my beliefs in training and my breed of dog. Obviously you know nothing of me or my dogs therefore you can not comment on me or my dogs. This thread was about prong collars. So lets get back on topic.