Things you think are 'wrong' with wolfy type crosses/new 'breeds'? Discussions

Borderdawn & Kcjack are probably the two most vociferous, but there are a couple of others. At least Dawn does have some knowledge and normally post good sensible posts, even she is guilty of posting comments as facts.

Plus there are a few that treat one breeder as the final word on all things NI, and then there's the others that do the same for another breeder. Means you can't really trust either as they seem to contradict each other on most things.

Lets put everything back under the carpet then, if we cant see it, it doesn't exist.

Great post.

I'll stick to the numbering, it's a good idea

1. You're right, sorry

2. This wasn't aimed at you. There are posts on this thread that do say there are massive health problems.

3. Aye, it's always nice to agree on something

4. This thread is supposed to be about facts (see OP). So opinion, whilst I have no problems with it at all, doesn't belong on this thread.

5. Damn, you're right again. Just shows you shouldn't post after drinking. Sorry again:-blush:

6. Perhaps I should give up. I think I must have mixed an earlier post up with yours. Or I had my beer goggles on.

7. Agree . And I too am doubtful anyone can come up with much in the way of facts and figures. What I then get frustrated with is that is true how can someone make the statement that there is categorically massive health problems within the breed? All I'm asking is what are they basing that statement on? Fact, or gut feel? If it's gut feel then say so, don't try and present it as a fact.

I promise I'll try and read your posts more carefully in future, sorry.

I'm not suggesting that at all. But if it's not a fact then people shouldn't present it as one, they should present it as an opinion.

My comments ARE facts! I told you READ the Cry Wolf forum and read the OWNERS of these dogs who have died from Epilepsy, have been put to sleep because of attacking people, there are a lot more than 1 Efes, I do wish you stop pretending there is nothing wrong.

Some people in "my" breed will say that "cramping" doesnt exist because they havent seen the "proof" for themselves, well it does, its here, because it hasnt bitten you on the backside doesnt mean it isnt there!

Ok we all know Efes is pedantic so can somebody please tell me who used the word 'massive' so we can clear that post up.

Efes123 was the first to state 'massive problem'

Have I missed something? People are being led to believe there are substantial health probs with the breed. What is the problem with the use of the word 'massive' ?

People are also being led to believe ther are no problems, could the truth be somewhere between the two?

I would say all dogs have health probs , (obviously some more than others) but there is no reason to believe the NID has more probs than other similar breeds.

To be honest I have never said they have more health problems than other breeds but they do have health problems. The more serious side of this is that no-one really knows what lines carry them because none of the pedigrees are right (some good breeders will know there own lines going back 3 generations but after that it is messy).
As I have said before by pointing the finger at other breeds poor practices does not make the bad practices in NIs less poor.

I do not believe that non of the pedigrees are accurate, I think 'good breeders' who care and know the breed know which lines to breed from. I do believe that there are bad breeders who do not care and breed regardless eg ref epilepsy say stupid things like 'as the carrier and the effected dog has been identified the third in a litter is clear'.
This could be ignorance or deliebrate, who knows but such attitudes do not help the breed.

I also did not say that you personally believe the NID has more health probs then other breeds, however, alot of people seem to be pointing at that, who knows why? Perhaps to justify adding new blood.

But if the pedigrees aren't correct then they might be breeding the worst dog to the wrong pedigree'd bitch..

Surely for any breed to be created (wolfy or otherwise) records should be accurate to know which is the best mating and inbreeding is not rife.
Also only the dogs that have been health tested should be used within the gene pool whilst taking into consideration the lines.
No dogs should be used knowing they are affected by an illness or even carriers of a illness.
It stands to reason some pups will be affected at some point, then these dogs are bred from just makes the overall health of the breed or chances of ill pups.
It doesn't matter how small the gene pool is, if you building up a new breed of dog, the history of the foundation dogs are vital and the basis of the future.Without a good strong basis it would only be a matter of time before problems arise.

I agree, they could be, but are they?

What breeds are you referring to? Do you mean the founder breeds or Ute's, BI's etc?

All breeds have health issues however I think one of the main concerns is that with such a new breed, why do they have so many health issues? When people are looking to create a new breed they should obviously choose founder dogs who do not carry (or have a very low incidence of in their lines) detrimental genetic traits. Therefore, in theory, the 'new' breed should be healthier than the founding breeds.

The ages at which many ailments actually show up is at an older age that the dog is at present, so owners of potentially affected dogs have to spend each day wondering if the next is when symptoms will show, I don`t think you have understood this fact :-(

When so much as one dog exhibits hereditary ailments and the parents are still being bred from regardless of it, then there is a HUGE problem.