Things you think are 'wrong' with wolfy type crosses/new 'breeds'? Discussions

It is indeed but don't you think think with KC registered dogs that have enormous pedigrees and well-established lines, health tests and breeders it is less likely?


I'm not arguing away from wolf-like breeds. I love these dogs and there was a time I would argue the toss with people who brought up any potential problems. It's just that I've been around it a bit longer now, spoken to more people in the breed(s) and don't believe that things are quite as rosy as I once did.

No I don't. I think the more popular breeds are probably wose off than the wolfy ones. The KC seems pretty useless in policing it's breeders. Not that I know what the answer is, as long as there is a demand, there will be a supply.

Should`nt you be questioning whomever wrote the pedigree`s rather than the person whom has been sent various pedigree`s to post

[ re inbreeding ] I consider using the same stud on three consecutive generations of his own progeny to be shocking. And on one pedigree at least that being done with more than one stud and their progeny.

Efes.
This is the pedigree of my youngest Border. He has 2 lines to the same dog from the 3rd generation, this is what I call "line breeding" Any more incidences of the same dogs appearing would IMO be wrong.

http://www.emblehope.co.uk/wp-content/gallery/pedigrees/orey_tarra_pedigree.jpg

Now if you take the NI peds, TIDA or NIS, they sometimes have the same dogs mentioned over 10 times!! Whether they are "wrong" pedigrees or not, i cant see for the life of me anyone being so stupid as to "make one up" and make one like the ones we are seeing.

And the 3 that are the same dog, that brings it down to 7, and the ones they don't know whether there's a problem or not, that brings it down to 4, that's fairly low for me.


Is the pedigree genuine? And what exactly do you consider too much, showing me the cert doesn't tell me that.

Yes when it`s against the breed standard that is supposed to be bred to, [ when the final breed standard is even coherently decided on that is ]

Thank you Patch, at last a number. That's all I've been asking for instead of emotive statements.

Do you know how many times this has happened, out of the thousands of wolfy dogs? An educated guess will do. Or does anyone know a figure out of the dogs that have been mentioned on this site?

Yeah, that's true.

What I was thinking was that if you see an ad in the paper for, say, KC reg'd GSD pups, there should be a number of things you can check? But if you see an ad for a non KC reg'd wolf look-a-like Utonagan, unless you know about these dogs and that there are breed clubs to check its lines with, how do you know?

I got Loki from the President/Chairperson/High Honcho or whatever she called herself of the British and International Utonagan Society. It meant diddly-squat in reality. I had no idea of the history behind her because it wasn't 'out there' - at least not where I could find it. As he was not a KC registered breed I went on trust and I believed her. She had a history of breeding Malamutes (champions?) so that helped persuade me.

My own stupidity? Yes, partly. But I did the telephone chats and Q&A sessions, visited twice etc. There are loads like me or worse who don't even think to go that far.

I had e-mails from her eventually admitting that the pedigrees weren't as they should be but of course, it wasn't her fault and she blamed everyone else in the breed. By that stage I'd stopped trusting her anyway.

Ah, but whose standard, they're all different. But even so, that hardly insinuates a health problem in the breed does it?

well a good example of inbreeding is my dogs Dam, she had the same dog Tote Tims ....... as her both her grandsires and if that isn't bad enough, you then realise that means more inbreeding further back, as Tote Tims dam, was Tara, she came from Wolfgar and Shy Lady, Wolfgar is out of SHY LADY and Buck.Buck is out of Moose and Majestic. BUT SHYLADY is out of Chinook and MAJESTIC.

He also has Tote Tims on the Sire side once, but of course this means the same older dogs at the back of the pedigree.

Sorry if that is confusing

To also add to this he has two dogs with terrible hipscores as his Dam's parents But like alot of people a lot of this stuff you find out afterwards;-)

But isn't this a different opinion than Patch's? Does anyone have any quote, or link to a genetic expert that can give figures as to how much is too much?

Ah but you can't trust those certificates

Yes it is a bit confusing, need more beer

Do your dogs have any health problems? If not then has any harm been done?

EXACTLY!! they could be even worse, as I said what Muppet would make up such awful pedigrees? only someone who "thought" they were better than the real ones!

Young dog, time yet (hopefully none though) harm? Well how about his littermates? Who keeps in touch with all of them? Same goes for all others.

Nope, I counted 12 dogs with health problems. I only counted the dog with many health problems as 1 dog.

I have no idea whether it is genuine or not. If you look at the Dams side of the pedigree you will see that father was mated to daughter, then mated to daughter from litter produced, then mated to daughter from the litter produced.

Are you joking?????? about no harm done, he has I have found out by doing loads of detective work, Addisons, VWD, Epilepsy, HD, Eye Problems, Heart problems in that one line , as have many .

Well, so far a very sensitive stomach, but I am having him tested for Addisons, VWD, Hipscored, Epilepsy will be a cse of wait and see, and my vet will help me sort out the appropriate eye tests.

My dog is only 16 months, so some things won't show up yet.


There is plenty of harm done if I lose my lovely boy, whom I absolutely adore, at a young age!!!!!

Loki's Great Grandmother on one side is the litter sister of the Great Grandfather on the other.
The other Great Grandfather is the half brother of the Great Grandmother on the other side.

Caz of TUA informed me of the potential for Addison's a while back and lo and behold in the last few weeks I finally found a sibling of Loki , sadly she has just been diagnosed with Addison's at the age of 4.

As if we don't have enough cr*p with the epilepsy, we now have this to worry about too.

Of course it has. Mack is only young and Suzi has the worry that he may develop a number of problems. Apart from that, what if she'd decided to use him as a stud without checking his pedigree and passed those genes to other dogs?

But thanks to Caz, at least I was aware of the potential for Addison's. I had to inform this poor owner that their dog's brother has epilepsy.:-(

Thank you Linda, I am lucky I have had great help from people like Linda and Caz , who have done so much research into the health of the Utes, and have taken a lot of crap for saying when a mating is ill advised etc.

I try not to dwell on it, but the last week or so , has made realise, the odds of him not developing one or more of these problems isn't good is it?

I do worry that one of his littermates is probably being bred from, as it was a large litter, so the chances are at least on eof them wil be bred from:-(